Subspace with Samantha - May, 1999

Samantha grins and hops up on stage.  If you've been to ANY thing that I hold you know that I don't usually go by the formal rules, UNLESS it gets out of hand.
Catalina settles into a seat next to Katherine ready to listen
Rebecca smiles at Morn
Katherine leans against Cat and waits for Sammy to ge nekkid. I mean, get started.

Samantha smiles..i don't want this discussion group to be a lecture from me.    i want it to be a discussion.  So chirp in if you wish.  If it gets carried away i'll go to the formal rules <smile>.  Samantha sits down on the edge of the stage and crosses her ankles.  Okay.  I guess the first and foremost question is..WHAT exactly is subs space.  Samantha grins.. If you know.. you are WAY further along than others because *I* can't even define it.  It's mental.   Something that just takes you over.  You fly.  You let go.  Its the best feeling in the world.  But .. i can't define it like ol webster and his dictionary.  Samantha grins.. for me personally its hard to go into subs space with someone I don't know that well, or trust.  Because if i let go..i'm entrusting them with *everything*.

[connection lost, reconnect, resume log]

redkitty laughs
Snake asks: Change sides?
Eilan agrees.
Rebecca says: I'm not really chatty.
ladylooking says: yes,
redkitty says: yes.. i get slower.. yes.. cant move.. dont want to move.. slurred speech.. but my awareness of master is heightened
Catalina says: I get quieter.. not chattier... so if you see me getting quiet........
Rebecca nods with redkitty.
ladylooking says: when you're in subspace, you can't do much more than one syllable yes/no answers
Eilan says: For myself, that person becomes my complete focus.  They are the center and everything revolves around pleasing  them.  Even the act of breathing is for them.
Rebecca says: In fact, being cohorced to chat more will drag me out of subspace.
Catalina says: I agree Rebecca
Rebecca can't type tonight.
redkitty says: I did not mean i feel chatty in this high but that mellow floaty feeling of marijuana .. not the giggles and chattiness
redkitty nods
Samantha smiles and listens
Rebecca nods.
redkitty says: one more comment then i will shut up and listen.. if i have to count swats.. i lose subspace
Rebecca nods again.  Me too.
Samantha nods  Samantha says: thats common
Rebecca says: I can't "release".
Samantha says: people who go deep into subs space can't even remember their safeword.   Samantha smiles
Catalina nods..  or where they are
Rebecca says: I use my master's name as a safeword.  It is one thing I *never* forget.  His actual given name.

Samantha says: thats when a big portion of the Dom/mes responsibility comes in  to keep them safe to make SURE they know their safeword..that they are okay.  some people use their own names as Safewords. i mean..there is NO reason to say MY name in the middle of a scene unless my dominant is named Samantha but still..even then..
Rebecca smiles.

Samantha says: like i said..its hard to describe subs space.  its a floating .. just letting go.  concentrating on the sensations you feel.

Catalina says: the most important thing is trusting in someone enough to let
go........

Samantha says: I think when i came back, you all were discussing if you were talkative or not.  I, personally, am not.  I'd rather not say a word and just let my mind soar.. Samantha nods..to me its hard to let go, but if i do have that trust, i drop immediately.  A good dom/me should be able to read their sub and tell whats going on.

Rebecca says: I don't drop immediately.  There are things that can get me to sub space faster than others.

Samantha says: I've played with some that.. in the middle of the scene they ask a question. 

Catalina says: I can remember once being called back... I didn't want to leave where I was

Samantha says: if you are slow responding.. they can tell.  If you are a new play partner to them..they tell you to speak up..because if you say 'red' they can't hear you.   They pull you out some..to make SURE  you are safe, and alright.  Coming out of subs space is a tricky thing too.  Everything is a daze.  Some come out quickly.  Some slowly.  If you come out to fast and when you are playing one stops the scene.. the dom/me and the sub can crash.  The Dom/me also gets a high out of this.  Just in another perspective.  Crashing is hard and can take awhile to recover.  Samantha smiles.. coming out of subs space is a slow gentle process.. for *me*.  Others may have other opinions about it. 

Catalina says: I like napping just after.. then waking slowly
ladylooking says: can take thirty minutes to an hour or more to come down from it

Samantha smiles.. my personal preference is to just be held.. have my hair stroked..to be reassured and 'protected'
Catalina asks: do you feel that after a little rest you can go right back?
Samantha grins..myself, NO.  Not usually.  But that is me
Catalina nods..  I do
Lavicka can. give me about 10 minutes after im out completely and im bouncing off the walls
Samantha says: I mean.. 30 minutes. i would say no.   later in the day.. maybe about 3 or 4 hours down the line.. I would
Catalina says: I'd go back again and again until I was exhausted
Samantha grins..i come out of subs space slowly..
Rebecca nods.
Lavicka does too
ladylooking says: me too
redkitty says: I come out of sub space very slowly too..i dont drive the car right away either.. i wait a long time.. hours if i can
Samantha says: my preference is to come COMPLETELY out of it and then go back in later
Rebecca says: If I come out of it too quickly, I feel like I am zigging in a zagging world.
Lavicka says: almost as slowly as i wake up from naps

Samantha chuckles.. I guess BDSM is like plain vanilla aspects to me in some ways.   There are times when i want it and there are times when i don't.  Sometimes a man will look at me and i'll want to slap him.  Samantha grins.  I'm not in the mood.
Catalina chuckles...
Lavicka nods in a big bad way
Catalina says: that seldom happens to me.... I have to be provoked to that

Samantha says: Once *I* have taken that journey into subs space.. i want to relax for a bit.  If you want to continue don't bring me out  of subs space fully.   Samantha smiles..many different things can drop a person into subs space.  Say for example...
ladylooking says: like music
Samantha asks: Snake..can i use  you as an example?
Snake hmms and is apparently gonna be made an example out of.  Sure.
Rebecca smiles
Samantha chuckles
Lavicka smiles
Samantha says: for example.. if I met Snake irl and we decided we were going to play I honestly wouldn't go into subs space.. and if i did..it wouldn't be deep..  a very mild form.  Partly because i don't KNOW snake that well.  Yes, I talk to him online..but i dont' KNOW him.  For snake to put me into subs space would be VERY VERY difficult.  You have to realize.. it isn't THINGS that puts you into subs space, it is yourself

Lavicka nods and knows exactly what you mean, sam
Samantha says: YOU have to make the decision to let go
Rebecca agrees

Samantha says: however.. say, I subbed to Katherine.  Samantha grins and uses Katherine as an example.  I KNOW Katherine very very well.  We've been close friends irl for about 8 months now.  I could let go.  I trust her that much.   To give myself completely to her, and that is the best feeling in the world   to be able to do that.  Its literally like flying.  Samantha grins. Like Titanic.. 'you feel like the king of the world."  Different things can send people into subs space.  Once you have a partner you can trust like that it can be a simple look from them.  When they look in your eyes.

Lavicka says: smells do it for me
Samantha nods.. smells
Samantha says: ladylooking said 'music'
Lavicka says: or the tone of a voice
Rebecca nods.
Samantha says: simple things make people drop.  Its senses.
Alyana NODS.
Rebecca says: Or all of the above. :)
Alyana says: hehe.
Samantha says: touch, see, smell, hearing, tasting.  Samantha winks
Lavicka says: or none of the above
Samantha says: a gentle touch on the shoulder from your dominant
Lavicka says: not being allowed any of those things is rather strong in itself
Samantha says: but it is YOU that makes YOURSELF drop.  Nothing makes you.  You allow yourself.  Samantha grins.  Samantha nods..true Lavicka.  The word 'now.'  Samantha winks
Rebecca nods

Samantha says: I'm jello.  Subs space is different for all.  Thats why there is no real concrete definition of it.  Its something you need to experience.   Its not something anyone can grasp from someone describing it to them.

lashes says: since for me, SM and sex are separate, , it has always been the crescendo of sensation in a scene and this progression into the liminal state is what is, to me, what others call sub-space.  It is a giving in a way, but when playing with Tops, as opposed to playing with my Master, it means that negotiation becomes more important.   lashes peeks from between her fingers
Rebecca smiles
lashes asks: has someone already said that?
Catalina says: no, not yet lashes
Rebecca says: It's another variation on a similar theme, which has been enlightening to hear.

lashes says: the empowerment of the liminal state is addictive.  lashes turns bright red
Catalina says: its very addictive in my opinion.
Samantha grins..no reason to turn red.  i think most of us agree.
Rebecca nods.
lashes says: most of my rl experience is as a non-sexual bottom
Catalina says: I've never been addicted to a thing in my life untill I hit that feeling

Samantha says: lashes hit on negotiation ..  that is VERY important.  If you are one that does go into subs space you need to have Rules SET.  Remember..you are giving yourselves to them.
lashes says: this, of course, is very different than being submissive
Samantha says: and you are letting that part of you go
lashes says: submission..  takes trust, and knowing
ladylooking says: very true
lashes says: the hardest part of negotiation, especially with someone you admire but do not know, is *saying*  what it is you like
Samantha says: it is very important for a dom/me ..when they see a sub is dropping.. To keep them safe

lashes says: ahh, yes.   i would like to discuss sub responsibilities at some point.  Toppish Ones who are good are as or more vulnerable than we are and they deserve their own considerations.
Samantha says: that falls back towards the negotiation part.  The sub HAS to let the top know their limits
lashes says: that is true, Sam.  but when one is beginning, one does not always know

Samantha says: thats why you negotiate.  For me personally.. I don't play with anyone i dont' know.  I have to trust.  I'm entrusting my LIFE to these people.   i BETTER trust them.

lashes says: in the beginning, i only played in public
Samantha nods..even in public
lashes says: this made it safer
Samantha says: there should be some negotiation.  That is my opinion.  And not everyone follows this
lashes says: oh, wityhout question.  They don't?

Samantha says: Personally.. a top should not pull out a knife and do an intense knife, scarification scene, something really heavy the first time one plays.  That should be obvious.  No, lashes.. some don't negotiate.  Samantha grins.  I do.   And i HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend that you do.  The first scene should be mild.. a 'get to know you '  scene.  Nothing really dramatic and heavy.

lashes says: negotiation usually involves discussion of marks.  Even bruises.   Most Tops do not want to mark everything in the place.

Samantha says: its the SUBS responsibility to let the top know about ANY limitations.   Physical, emotional, mental..whatever
lashes says: yes, it is.  lashes advocates subs responsibility
Samantha says: whether it be.. no marks or whether it be..i have a bad knee and can't kneel
lashes exclaims: keep those good Tops happy!
Samantha says: even something as much as... I was abused as a child.. are things that a top should know.  In case he/she triggers something and you panic.  Tthose are all, to me, limitations and should be discussed thoroughly. 

Samantha says: Subs space is a beautiful thing and it IS very addicting.  Its best felt, not described.  It takes both the Dom/me and the sub to make it happen.. trust and respect to let oneself go nd give themself totally to another.

Samantha smiles.. I'm finished.. and thank you all for coming.  It was a lot of fun.