MistressKim exclaims: Welcome and thanks for coming to tonight's discussion group!!! Absinthe gets a craving for grapes hand-peeled by a slave, in this position Morn smiles MistressKim exclaims: Tonight we're VERY pleased and honored to have SFJoe with us! Saxy applauds MistressKim says: Not only is he the Treasurer for the Society of Janus, SFJoe says: Thanks. All of a sudden I'm tongue-tied MistressKim says: but he's also on the national board of directors fo rthe National Coalition for Sexual Freedom MistressKim says: Tonight we're talking about the community, and although we welcome questions, let's try not to swamp him Saxy nods obediently MoonClaw slips in quietly MistressKim says: let's follow formal guidelines, and kick into informal when we start to get on a savory topic, then go back to formal when we move onto a next topic...so a little more free flow blush smiles arwen settles in to listen MistressKim exclaims: without further ado...here's Joe!!! MistressKim claps loudly arwen exclaims: Yeah! Saxy applauds again MistressKim writes a message on the board. girlee smiles Scarlett smiles in welcome MasterDave applauds Domaris claps Carlynne applauds SFJoe says: all. I tend to be kinda wordy, so if I have a long answer I'm liable to break it up with a "...", meaning more to come. SFJoe says: MistressKim pretty much told you all about me. I'm also a full-time student, working on my masters in software engineering and a part-time artists' model SFJoe says: I really don't like to be the "VOICE OF AUTHORITY", rather I am hoping to facilitate a group discussion involving everyones' ideas SFJoe says: ( I have this thing about questioning authority).. Saxy giggles Carlynne grins gwynn smiles Suil smiles SFJoe says: Anyway, as she said, I am with the Society of Janus, we recently marched in the San Francisco LGBT Pride Parade - that was a ton of fun. I am also on the board of directors for the NCSF and as soon as I remember it, I'll be sure to give you the web address for that. ... SFJoe asks: So - on with the show. Who's got the 1st question??? Suil says: i have a question about janus society MistressKim says: go for it Suil SFJoe says: ok Suil says: im not able to make it down to the bay but once in a blue moon, are there janus society gropus in other areas... ie sacramento SFJoe says: There is a munch group that meets in Sac - I have forgotten the name of the person who organizes them....... (one sec) Suil listens girlee says: i have that info joe and can get it to Suil SFJoe says: I don't have it handy. If yo uwant - drop me an email at joeh@immediate.net and I'll see if I can find her name MistressKim asks: thank you girlee. Maybe you'd like to write it on the board? SFJoe says: thanks girlee girlee says: sure MasterDave raises his hand MistressKim nods. MasterDave? Suil smiles thanks MasterDave asks: How well do you think a long-term online relationship will translate into a real-life one? MistressKim writes a message on the board. SFJoe says: My best response to that[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C to say it depends on the two of you. I doubt that there is any template that fits everyone. Personally, I have met some people online and had it turn into a fun relationship. The opposite has also happened. Be upfront and honest, just as you do in your r/t relationships.... girlee writes a message on the board. girlee says: 1566 Howe Ave., just south of Arden Way. Come meet other members of SAK in a girlee says: welcoming atmosphere. This is a social event, not a play party. Email Master R girlee says: at masterr@calweb.com Absinthe raises his hand girlee says: sorry SFJoe says: I thought I had more to say, but I guess I don't. Starjumper raises a hand Scarlett raises her hand blush smiles soflty girlee writes a message on the board. girlee says: 1566 Howe Ave., just south of Arden Way. Come meet other members of SAK in a girlee says: welcoming atmosphere. email Master R at masterr@calweb.com for more info girlee gives up and hides SFJoe says: lol MistressKim asks: Absinthe? Saxy giggles Chooser asks: ? MistressKim writes a message on the board. MistressKim writes a message on the board. Absinthe says: I just wanted to say that I've had experience with Net>RL relationships, and it's worked for me... the relationships have both faded, but not because of any incompatibilities, just normal relationship drift girlee writes a message on the board. girlee asks: ? SFJoe says: There you are. It is interesting, however, to see how the real person compares with the 'net persona Absinthe says: Usually they're not all that different =} Carlynne says: i would tend to disagree. SFJoe says: So[C[C[C[Cmes in their wording and other little things MistressKim asks: Starjumper? Starjumper exclaims: HI! Umm, lots of bdsm groups in large cities like SF, Chi-town, NY and such. How would you suggest finding good, SS&C groups in smaller-town areas? Darien raises his hand for the queue as well. Scarlett nods..my question too. Leialoha nods SFJoe says: I was afraid someone might ask that question. It's been several years since I lived in a small town, so I am not really sure.... blush says: in the book Screw the roses there is a good listing Starjumper asks: well, what advice could you give on starting your own group in a small area? SFJoe says: my best reply to you would be to keep a high profile on the 'net. Seek out resources (like this board) and search for groups in your region. I had nothing to do with it, but.... MistressKim comments quietly...contact a DM and we'll do our very best to get you a group close to your location. MistressKim says: at any time we'll work hard to get you linked up. SFJoe says: the Society of Janus web page has a greta listing of bdsm groups. Do a Yahoo search and go from there Hemmingway says: try www.darkheart.com/usalist.html for a list of places Starjumper writes this down and thanks everyone SFJoe says: You might also consider forming your own group. There's more perverts out there than you think. Of course, that depends on your level of comfort with being "out" Starjumper checks the lock on his closet ^_- Saxy chuckles MistressKim says: Chooser you're next. SFJoe says: lol blush chuckles Chooser says: ok - i was just wondering how you view the purpose of Janus .. how have you seen it benefit yourself and others SFJoe exclaims: Warning! Long answer ahead --------- Many people misunderstand the purpose of Janus. A lot of peolpe assume that Janus is the end of their road, .... girlee smiles SFJoe says: when it is actually , it is simply a gateway into the bdsm community. Janus has no real "screening" of members, so anyone with $35 can get in. Once on, however, you can meet and network with others who have your interests and.... SFJoe says: like - minded pervs . Janus acts as an umbrella for these smaller "cliques" (trying to find a better word, but that will do) I am also trying to make Janus become more of a central meeting area for all splinters of the community - gay, lesbian, etc. This is a it of a tough go however. gwynn asks: ? MistressKim asks: girlee? girlee says: thanks MK.. i have two comments to make girlee says: the first is that when i joined Janus about 2.5 yrs ago.. i didn't know many people in the community and it opened up my entire bdsm community.. it was a fabulous thing to do.... girlee says: the second is about net to rl relationships girlee says: first off.. always remember to be safe.. no matter how well you know the person online.. be safe in your meetings... and also girlee says: i spent almost a year 24/7 with a Master that i met online.. it was the best year of my life.. but it takes a long time to really get to know someone.. and it's hard to do online... you can't know everying... i ultimately ended up asking to be released rather than marrying my Master because our lifestyles varied a lot... girlee says: he lived on a deserted island.. and i hunger more for people... so just go slow and really get to know the person irl girlee smiles at MK.. done Ma'am MistressKim asks: gwynn? SFJoe exclaims: great point!! Especially about the safety. A lot of men assume that having a safe call is for women , but this is not true. Safety is important to al SFJoe says: all gwynn says: I have a question that several of you might be able to help me with... Darien asks: ? gwynn says: how viable is it to hope to maintain a bdsm-type relationship inside the context of a relationship that is visible to the world-ie. the car, the picket fence, etc. etc. gwynn says: I can't help it if I want it all.... girlee exclaims: very viable! SFJoe asks: go ahead girlee. What makes you say that? girlee says: just cause i lived it... we had a normal looking relationship to the rest of the world.. dinners, movies.. nice home etc... but in our privacy.. we never forgot for a moment that i wore the collar and was his slavegirl MistressKim says: (brief "me too's" welcome) Saxy grins...me too! blush dittos SFJoe asks: What were some of the difficulties (if any) that having a bdsm relationship imposed on you that wouldn't have been there if there was no bdsm in the relationship? MistressKim says: That's how our family works too, gwynn. Me, my husband (Ketzer) and my slave (Strike). All in the same house, normal with 2.5 cars & 3 cats to the outside world. blush says: a plug Saxy laughs arwen laughs gwynn laughs Suil chuckles Starjumper says: ^_^ Scarlett laughs girlee says: there were none Joe.. tho i would have been able to work etc.. if in an ordinary relationship runningdeer listenss carefully. arwen says: You could work in a bdsm relationship, too. girlee laughs at MK.. who drives the half car? Mara nods. arwen hopes she hasn't spoken out of turn MistressKim says to girlee: why Strike of course. The subbie! blush says: for me..a bdsm relationship improved my "normal' life Mara tries to stifle a giggle. :) girlee laughs hard.. very cute Scarlett smiles MistressKim asks: Darien? Darien says: Thanks. I have a question about NCSF, the larger BDSM community, and building bridges to the GLB community, but I need a sec to type it in. (I promise, no epistles. Leave those to Paul. :) ) sharon asks: ? Saxy says: Excuse me. Darien exclaims: There has been a running catfight in the GLB media between the so-called "neoconservatives" (Sullivan, Rotello, and Kramer) and a group called SexPanic! (headed up by Michael Warner, among others). The issue is public/free sex, in a nutshell. Darien asks: Do you see 1) NCSF, and 2) the BDSM community as taking sides in that quarrel? Are the issues the same/similar enough to form alliances? sharon asks: -:smiles. "Okay, this topic mentioned how to get incontact with others in our areas...organizations, etc...i'm interested in otheres here/orgs here in Indianapolis, Indiana usa, or nearby cities...Clues how i can do this? Darien asks: (Does the question make sense? :) ) sharon eepss...that wans't supposed to happen... SFJoe says: Yes. MistressKim winks at Sharon and will let he re-iterate it when we're done with Darien SFJoe says: Personally, I would urge any group I was involved with to not take a side in this "catfight".... Darien chuckles. Wise man. runningdeer smiles Scarlett writes a message on the board. SFJoe says: I can't really see any long-term benefit to either sides proposals. Tempest in a teapot , in my opinion Darien nods. SFJoe asks: Does everyone know what the issue here is? Starjumper stands and bows "have a good night all, must fly" blush says: i am afraid i do not Absinthe says: me either SFJoe says: You can probably phrase it better than I, Darien gwynn raises her hand again sharon doens't, either. SFJoe says: Sex Panic, as I understand it, advocates a very radical "in-your-face" philosophy as a way to combat discrimination. Darien nods, and will try to do so tersely. :) The concrete upshot of the argument is public sex: should gay men have the right to engage in public sex in, say, restrooms, without excessive harrassment by law enforcement. The issue has expanded to be a referendum on "sex negativity": how far should the GLB movement try to change society's attitudes toward sex, and how much should it try to "fit in" with larger norms. arwen whispers good night blush says: intersting..to what level has this debate reached....*in terms of law* Darien hopes that clarifies a little. IF the issue is still fuzzy, I'm happy to clarify what in Hades I'm talking about through .tells, so Joe can get on with more enlightening questions. :) SFJoe says: Wel, in terms of law, I really can't see any elected official openly supporting the right to have sex in a public restroom blush smiles Cheyain giggles a tad bit MistressKim asks: gwynn? MistressKim says: (Sharon's question was answered, just so no one thinks I forgot her) MistressKim asks: gwynn appears to be idling. You had another question, Sharon? gwynn says: yes, I went to the pride parade in DC about a month ago. the bi turnout, I thought, was rather tiny. in the early 90s, bisexuality was so out in the open, some would call it "in style". however, it seems lately that we've crawled back into the closet, not just in the straight community, but also in the gay community gwynn says: sorry, long question MistressKim grins at gwynn. And here she is! gwynn says: does anyone have any ideas, comments, etc... SFJoe says: I'm glad (sorta) to hear that. I was wondering if the smallish bi community was peculiar to San Francisco. DreamChild is doing mail stuff. SFJoe says: I have a theory..... Mara kneels next to TomDLux DreamChild is done with mail. Cheyain thinks it is hard to come out in a small town. Absinthe has a comment SFJoe says: I am wondering if the increasing opennes of the gay commun ity allows bisexuals to be serially homosexual. That is to say.... sharon agrees, finding it hard, erslef to come out... SFJoe says: hang oout with the gay community at times and the straight community at other ti sharon gets...comeons way too often, if others think she is, and it's ... embarrassing, when i'm not looking... Crow asks: ? SFJoe says: There has been a lot of conversation in the bi circles I run with on just this topic, but no real conclusions Absinthe says: Related to that, I think that too many people confuse bisexuality and polyamory... authorities like MTV's Dr. Drew have publicly said that someone in a monogamous relationship is *by definition* monosexual SFJoe asks: anybody else have any thoughts on this? SFJoe says: Dr. Drew and MTV can kiss my ass. Suil chuckles Glory asks: ? Absinthe says: all the same, Drew speaks to the college crowd... gwynn applauds Cheyain grins at that one. SFJoe says: What a completely worthless and pathetic know-nothing he and his entore show is Carlynne smiles Absinthe says: so if he says bisexuals are all polyamorous, by definition, and polyamory is still anathema, well, there you have it MistressKim asks: Darien? girlee says: scuse me Mara says: hh Darien asks: Really quick question: why Janus, the Two-Faced god? Crow says: But isn't it that there shouldn't be a "gay" community anf a "straight " community... I mean we are all different and we all love those differences... that's what I've at least felt in the bdsm community... what is your boat is your baotoat...what's mine is mine and if those paths cross than awesome but if not then so be it... we all have our own preferences... short, tall, fat, thin, bi, straight, gay, vanilla, hardcore, kinky, scat... whatever... itas all just a feeling inside us... SFJoe says: I honestly don't remember. Something about being in the closet nand living in two worlds. Go to our page at www.soj.org, there ought to be something about it there MistressKim exclaims: And, as you all know...that's the buzzer!!!! Darien nods. SFJoe says: Thanks everybody. One mroe thing..... MistressKim says: We run regular "BDSM & relationships" discussion groups... MistressKim says: but had seemed to burn out on them a while ago. If there are enough NEW people who want it, .tell me and we'll think about it. MistressKim listens to SFJoe SFJoe says: Please take a minute and visit the NCSF page at : http://members.aol.com/NCSFreedom/Home.html and fill out the survey on violence and discrimination. Thanks to you all and Mistress Kim for inviting me - this was fun Cheyain hopes that those URL's show up on the homepage of IR. MistressKim stands up and applauds loudly. Thank you Joe for taking time out of your crazy schedule to come and be with us!!! Crow claps wildly... Cheyain appluads loudly. Darien applauds too. Thanks! Absinthe applauds SFJoe says: and Carlynne exclaims: thank you! Suil smiles her appreciation Domaris applauds! Scarlett applauds. Thank you for your time, Joe! runningdeer claps too. Cheyain says: Thank you SFJoe. SFJoe says: It was fun. Invite me back sometime SFJoe says: G'night all. Scarlett exclaims: Night! Crow exclaims: Goodnight, Jore! gwynn applauds loudly...and was too late Glory waves