Integrating a Slave into a New Household

with Kim, August 2000

Kim says: Tonight we're going to talk about integrating a new slave into the household. This was sparked when we attended IMsL and listened to Teramis' talk on consensual slavery. However, Teramis has agreed to come speak to us herself in the future, and I don't want to steal her thunder. So we made a quick modification, and decided to talk about the biggest thing that's going on in OUR household...the introduction of Raven as our collared live-in slave. Q&A welcome, and at the end we'll open it totally up for discussion if there's time.

Kim says: The first thing listed in the write-up is HOW we accomplished the integration. Long distance didn't make it easy.

RavenMK shakes her head

Kim says: We had a lot of emails that went back and forth. Daily phone calls. And a lot of questions. Negotiation was the name of the game, as it should be. At one point I actually typed up a long document on those things which we would provide to her as a live in slave, and requirements she had to meet to be permitted to stay in the household. This included financial considerations, rooming considerations, etiquette, job search, privacy, and more. The less you leave to chance up front, the less chance for someone to have a crestfallen look..."Oh, I didn't think THIS is how it would be."

Kim says: To add to the complication, although Raven was not owned, she was still currently in a household. For the record, although I originally requested permission to continue to speak with her from the head of her household, all further negotiation went directly between she and I as she was unowned.
RavenMK nods
Kim says: Because we were long distance, we didn't have the luxury of a casual wooing period. We had one visit. Ketzer and I gave it our best shot to be as true-to-life as we really are, versus "visitor happy appy faces" and that was it. Based on 8 days with me she had to make a decision, and only 4 days with Ketz.

RavenMK says: Best decision I ever made.

Lwonder asks: Did you feel reasonably confident at the end of the visit that you had succeeded in the "normal"?
Kim chuckles. Actually yes. I had the nastiest case of the flu when she arrived. So bad I thought I'd fall to the floor waiting for her to get off the plane.
Kerr says: Ouch :(
Kim says: She slammed her knee out of joint getting off the plane. Ketzer started to get sick while she was visiting.
Kerr giggles
Kim says: We were QUITE the household. And she saw us at our worst right up front.
Lwonder says: Thank you :)
Kerr nodnods
Kim says: seeeeeeeexy. Kim rolls her eyes. It did NOT go according to plan, needless to say.
RavenMK exclaims: I was hooked from the start and then Master cooked! The first day or so it was just friends while I curbed my nerves. I wanted to make a good impression too. ::hobbling off the plane::

Selaria smiles Did you approach her first? To enter your household?
Kim says to Selaria: Yes.
Selaria asks: I mean, how does one make that known?
Kim says: I said point blank..."I want to own you."
Selaria nods
RavenMK nods
Kim says: I'm not one for subtlety or dancing around the subject. I figured if it was unwelcome, she'd say so, and we'd move on. Now keep in mind, I spent QUITE a bit of time figuring out if it was even appropriate for me to ask. For all I knew, in the beginning, she was owned. Once I figured that out, I figured I had nothing to lose. The worst she’d say is "no."

Selaria nods

Kim says: As Raven was looking to move cross-country, it was important that she knew what she was getting into. Like I said, I laid out everything we were offering. This was detailed right down to what happened if she got here and hated it. What expenses would we cover to relocate her? Would she have to
share a room? How would financial obligation for household expenses be figured? And even though my initial document was (typically Kim) anal-retentive detailed, she still had a lot of questions, which was good.

Kim says: Figuring out WHAT to ask is important. For example, one of her questions was if she would be loaned out sexually to other people. My answer helped her determine if she could live in a 24/7 slave
position in our household or not. Negotiation is up front. Once you're locked in...that negotiation power is gone.

Kim says: Ok, contract. I've never done a formal written contract. I don't particularly care for them. signing them and everything...does nothing for me. Yet, Raven wanted one. My solution? Fine. You want one, you write it.

RavenMK smiles

Kim sniffs. "think *I* will do all the work. Hardly."
Selaria chuckles
Kerr grins

Kim says: The biggest mistake in the contract she wrote??? She didn't take into account her own needs. Everything was focused on what she'd provide us. Very little (and woefully inadequate) attention to what SHE needed to be happy and healthy. Subs...when negotiating...remember you're not just selling
yourself. You're trying to figure out if it's a good fit or not! If you tell me that you need one beating every 6 months...you don't get to complain when that's ALL you get. YOU said...

RavenMK nods. I wasn't used to asking for or speaking up about what I needed.

Kim says: So be realistic, and don't worry about being selfish. Negotiation is just that. You ask. Raven wound up requesting one orgasm a week. We have orgasm control in this household. We still tease her that with all she's had in the month she's been here...it will be 10 years before she gets another. <snicker>
Selaria laughs
RavenMK blushes.
Kim exclaims: You should hear her whimper. Because, we COULD. That's the reality! She wrote it!
Kerr laughs!
gaston chuckles.
Kim exclaims: and we would be within our contract! (Raven has become deliciously oversexed...wink) (of course I like to keep her there!)

Kim says: The contract also included dates to review, and what would make the contract null and void.

Selaria asks: it can cover anything? : i mean, you've mentioned the sexual parts. but for example, any others?
Kim says: Yes. For example, the contract covered that she has to be gainfully employed by X date. Or, if she decides to stay a live-in slave, where we support her, that has to be discussed. But we can terminate the contract for that if we want. It specifies that she gets her own room.

Selaria nods.. but things as simple as clothes, or material things, what she can have, not have etc? foods.. i mean, is that the detail you want to get at?
Kim says: You could. Ours doesn't.
RavenMK says: finances and personal health and maintenance
Kim says: And we're in the process of getting power of attorney and health care agent documents drawn up with the lawyer, so should something happen, we could act in her behalf.

Selaria nods. I would just hate to be in the position of asking for something and being told, you should have thought of that up front. but i'd hate to get nitty gritty either.

Kim says to Selaria: it happens. So spend a lot of time thinking. Raven actually leaves herself pretty vulnerable in her contract. Hopefully because she trusts us.
Selaria nods Selaria says: interesting point i guess

Kim says: But, for example, I've already seen that she doesn't deal well with sleep deprivation. Yet there is nothing in her contract stating I CAN'T subject her to it.

RavenMK says: Selaria, Yes up front is when you should think of things. The review dates are an opportunity to fine tune and discuss.
Selaria says: ah, that's good

Kim says: she hates tomatoes. Yet, there are no food restrictions. I could make her eat them every day of the week.
Selaria says: hmm i see
Kim says: She did not include any "downtime." I could make her work 20 hours a day.
Selaria scribbles furiously
Kim says: so, what is NOT included is a sign of her level of trust.
RavenMK says: I do trust. They don't want broken property.
Selaria nods
Kim says: most importantly, there is nothing in there that says I can't just send her somewhere else for 1/2 a year.
Selaria says: eek
Kim says: I could pass her off. I WOULDN'T. I like having her HERE. But I could.
Selaria sees
RavenMK says: The contract provides a bit of insight for both sides as well. What i am concerned or worried about will surely be in it. What i do not fear or the fact I trust their judgement is evident in the gaps. A contract for me was a needed thing because of my wiring. Mistakes i have suffered from in my past. There is an addendum that tries to cover care and feeding issues YEESH once a week.
Kim snickers. "Once a week."
RavenMK makes mental notes.
Kim exclaims: and only TWO beatings a month! Even THAT is not hard and fast. It's "appreciated"

Kim says: Ok, pitfalls. The biggest mistake with integrating a new slave into the household is trying to push them into a decision. It was painful to watch Raven wrestle with whether she would take the risk to come here or not, but ultimate the decision had to be hers. If I had pushed, she would still be wondering. So patience is a virtue (of which I do not have much)

Kim says: Another pitfall which we struggled against was hidden agendas. It is very vulnerable to say "I need X" If you say it up front, you run the risk that the other person simply won't care enough to meet X need. And then you've lost the opportunity to say to yourself "well they didn't know." Because clearly, they DID know. You told them. Vulnerability was absolutely critical, especially with the less-than-ideal long distance thing we were combating. It reached one point where I, not knowing where her head was at,
interpreted some actions and said "I can't do this. I withdraw." Not knowing made me overlay what I THOUGHT was going on...over what was in reality happening. Fortunately she said the right things to make me reconsider. <grin>

RavenMK says: It felt so right and seemed too good to be true. I was scared. I
kept waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Kim says: Another pitfall is making promises one can't keep. Ketzer and I were very very careful to only make those promises we could live up to. This included telling her we would fly her here at any time. When that actually happened, and she called to say she wanted to come now, we had her on the next flight. If you can't do it, don't promise it. It just breeds mistrust. There are some things I am certain she would have LIKED me to say I could do. And there were things I wanted her to say she could live with...but reality was...we had to say "It would be NICE to say I can do that, but i can't. And either you'll accept it or not."

Samantha says: these are more personal issues and questions: How did you handle things 'locally'.. with family, explaining to them what was going on, how much do they know? i guess.. how to you tell mom and dad that you are going to be a live in slave?

Kim says: I am totally out to my family. Raven is semi-out.
Samantha nods
RavenMK says: I tell her I am happy and safe.
Samantha asks: what provisions are made for that?
RavenMK says: I have no restrictions on contact with my family.
Kim says: Oh. Mercy no. No restrictions to contact her loved ones. However, it's NOT in the contract. so I could. I wouldn't. But I could. Isolation is a sign of abuse. I actually encourage her to make as many connections and stay in close contact with people she cares about.
Samantha nods
RavenMK says: Yes, Ma'am could. I did ask about that in the beginning too.

Stormy asks: so Kim are you advising that people put in the contract what they wouldn't do if it's agreed verbally?
Kim asks: Me? I don't like contracts. Frankly. We have a contract for a security and safety net for Raven.
Stormy nods
Selaria asks: Why do you not like a contract?
Kim says: I advise that it's best to discuss and get agreement on as much as possible.
RavenMK says: A contract should be as complete as possible by it's nature however I have seen a contract that simply said as of this date I own you and you agree.
Stormy says: I like agreements and trust they will be followed
Kim says to Selaria: I find them...inflexible. But ours has a built in clause that says any party can change it...if every other party agrees. However, if I want to materially change it, and she doesn't agree, that terminates the contract if I insist. And she has...I think the contract specifies 2 weeks, to relocate after that.
Selaria nods
RavenMK nods

Kim says: The biggest pitfall is the natural grieving process. Any change has a sense of loss and transition, no matter how exciting, has a mourning period for that which is left. Very few relationships end without any trauma at all, without any regrets, without any pain. Here Ketzer and I are, all thrilled to have a new slave, and she's still dealing with complex transition issues. It's fantasy to think she'll jump in seamlessly. So ONE of the hardest things is the transition itself.
RavenMK nods and nods
Kim says: Change is scary. She left her job, left her household, packed up and moved cross country. Doing what I would have told any of YOU was stupid to do. So...especially nerve-wracking. <grin>

Selaria smiles
Samantha can just hear it
RavenMK smiles. Me too.
Kim says: we had numerous conversations..."I'd bitch slap me if I told me I was going to do this."
RavenMK laughs YUP

Kim says: And, of course, there's the pitfall of the fantasy world. Fantasy is that Raven is always cheerful, always eager to serve, always a little ray of sunshine. Fantasy is that I walk around in leathers all day long, creaking with every step. Well clue...she wakes up really dumb. (sentences must be 3 words or less, single syllables)
RavenMK says: true

Selaria laughs :)
Samantha says: lol Samantha bites her lip
Kerr grins at Kim
Kim says: and reality is that before my morning coffee, I am no gem myself. Put her slow-moving brain, with my bitchy pre-coffee energy, and you've got trouble brewing. That's reality.

Kim says: Another fantasy...her life is an open book to me. As her owner I can know anything. Reality...everyone needs privacy. Everyone.

Selaria asks: can you discuss some of the privacy issues?

Kim says: She has space for her private thoughts, conversations, and belongings. That's important for anyone's sanity. I would never paw through her room, although some of my things are in her closet (her choice, not mine, I told her to take 'em all out) I would never go through her bookshelf, her drawers, or read her email.

Selaria asks: regular mail? monitor phone calls?

Kim exclaims: Everyone needs time and space. And let's face it, one of the things she needs to do is...duh...bitch about ME! I don't monitor phone calls, and I don't open her mail. She has total privacy for her telephone conversations, although thus far she's never holed herself up in her room to take a call. It wouldn't phase me if she did. One night a friend called very LATE! That scared me half to death. If the phone rings after 10 PM, it's family calling to tell me someone died! But otherwise, nah.
Samantha erks

Kim says: Ok, so she shows up...unexpectedly early and not under ideal circumstances. We gave her about 48 hours to be shell-shocked. Adjust. And then I slammed her into a pattern. Do this, do that. Handle this. It was critical that she stopped feeling like a guest. One of her first assignments? Painting her own room before her new bedroom furniture arrived.
RavenMK smiles

Kim says: We enforced our rituals as quickly as possible. Every household has rituals. They're important. One of ours...dinner as a family. If at all possible.
RavenMK smiles and nods.
Selaria smiles
Kim says: In the evenings when we sit around laughing, she has "her" spot at our feet. Morning coffee became a ritual quickly on. She doesn't DRINK coffee...but I have my morning caffeine and she has hers, and we sit for a good 1/2 hour processing stuff. Her own computer. Her learning to BELIEVE it was her computer and actually USING it (versus being afraid she'd break it).
Selaria grins

Kim says: And...I found the FIRST thing that needed discipline, and disciplined. Swift, serious, bam. She was disciplined twice in about 72 hours...and swore it would be a long time before she was again. Nothing like that since. She honestly was not intentionally pushing. Once was a mistake, plain and simple. The other time...subconscious test. Hindsight is 20/20. <smile> However, we're also working on when humor is appropriate and when it's not. Raven has a delicious wry sense of humor.
Selaria smiles
Samantha grins

Kim says: We had an instance at IMsL where her mouth got the best of her. The worst thing I could have said, and did, was that I was disappointed.
Kerr eeks
Kim says: That's the ONLY time I've said that.
Flint nods
Kim says: which brings us to another point... We all walk into the new household with the old patterns and old tapes in our head. One of Raven's tapes is that to be forgiven, she must PROVE she is penitent by punishing herself mentally. Frankly, I got no time for that. I decide when it's over. And one of the most difficult things for her...is that when it's over...and I say it's over...it's over.

Flint asks: 'tapes'?
Kim says: Baggage. The ways we act out situations in our lives. What our brain tells us are acceptable responses to a situation. It's like running a tape. We project onto the new people in our lives how people from our past responded. It could be people from YEARS ago. Parental "tapes" are notorious. <grin>
Selaria chuckles. Indeed.

Kim says: Raven has a tendency to apologize for things that aren't her fault. She takes responsibility for things she has no way of controlling. We're working on it. <grin> She's also TERRIBLE about saying what she needs. Still.
RavenMK grins
Kim says: Example...I hooked her up to an eyebolt in the ceiling. Asked her if she needed the chains lower. She said no. I knew damn well she did. She's lucky. I asked again. So...she's got a tape of trying to second guess what I WANT to hear...or at least a tape of not wanting to be a "bother." When what I NEED is an honest answer to my question. Standard problem in a new household, or with any new relationship, yes?
Flint nods
Samantha says: YES. Samantha grins
Kim says: We want to appear "perfect," and forget that just who we are right now is "perfect"

Kim says: And last, but not least, we have the contact with the former household. No matter what, no matter WHAT situation that is...it's a sticky one. No matter how sweet, nice, and amicable we part ways with people from our lives...communication AFTER we've decided to part ways gets tricky for a while.
RavenMK nods
Kim says: We tend to continue the same dynamics. Even though the situation has changed. It's like no one can gain objectivity or perspective to "break the pattern" Keep in mind, I'm saying ALL relationships have this problem when they end. We typically need a little while of very little contact to get our
heads screwed on straight. <grin> And to learn to interact in new ways. The only thing I told Raven before she was collared was that if I saw the communication as destructive, I would forbid it. That's the only firm foot down limit I had about it.
RavenMK nods

Samantha asks: Is that with just the last household? or is that with anyone? (the communication being destructive)
Kim says: Her question was specifically if I would forbid contact with her former household.
Samantha nods
Kim says: But, if I saw truly destructive patterns (consistent...we all get into arguments now and again with those we care for) I would probably do something about it. I don't tolerate (if I can prevent it) much upheaval in the household. I savor my peace. Fortunately, Raven is also the peaceful sort.
Samantha smiles

Kim says: One of the examples (quick) of our tapes clashing... I was angry. In the kitchen. The Attica family has big mouths. When we get mad, we raise our voices. I raised my voice. Not AT Raven mind you. About something totally different. Raven's pattern is to make herself emotionally unavailable when
voices are raised. Unintentionally, I triggered this behavior. I apologized. She deserved an apology. She had warned me about it, and I forgot. I don't want her uncomfortable in her own house. (for the record, I recognized it within like 5 seconds)
RavenMK says: Every one comes with baggage from before. My work of late is on not knee jerk reacting.

Samantha asks: how often do you review the contract and negotiations?
Kim says to Samantha: October is our first review. January after that. The contract was signed July 8.

Morn asks: do you have any other subs in the house besides her?
Kim says: No, and according to our contract we can't have any other live ins unless we move. Our contract specifies that she is entitled to her own bedroom (everyone needs space) and we have one "meditation room/dungeon." As well as the Mistress Bedroom. (ha ha) (It's good to be Queen)

Ketzer raises eyebrow
Kim says: So to bring in another member of the household we'd have to get a 4 bedroom house. Ketzer and I decided long ago we can't live without a meditation room. (extra bedroom) Sends us a little stir crazy.
Kerr grins
Samantha grins
Ketzer exclaims: Very true!
Kim says to Morn: We wouldn't be adverse to adding to the family if the perfect person came along. But one more would be it. 4 is the limit to any situation K and I have ever even discussed. After that, it's extended leather family, which is fine. But I don't want them in my house. <grin>
Selaria chuckles

Lavicka asks: you mentioned earlier that you’ve negotiated on whether or not raven can be loaned out sexually... what about non sexually? Lavicka gets nosey
Kim says: negotiated. <nods> The answer is she can be loaned out nonsexually. Sexually...I'm too selfish to loan her out. Kim grins.
Lavicka nods. Lavicka grins, 'i know the type :)'
Kim exclaims: She gets plenty of action in this household. We like to keep her worn out!
RavenMK NODS
Kim says: (10 years till the next orgasm though)
Lavicka laughs
Kerr laughs! Poor Raven. She'll be awfully frustrated by year 9 then.
Ketzer chuckles Well, it is when Kim gets into one of her sadistic streaks <g>
Kim says: Raven comes from a multi-slave household. So it's not new to her to have other submissives/slaves around.
Kim says: (and she LIKES me sadistic)
RavenMK says: LOVES it
Samantha claps!
Samantha exclaims: very nice and informative! THANK YOU!
Lavicka giggles
Kerr claps :)
Domaris claps! thanks, Kim and Raven!
Selaria smiles and nods, thanks a bunch :)
Caitlyn smiles. thank you Kim and Raven.
Lavicka waves, 'thanks kim.. very good topic'
Kerr smiles .. Wonderful discussion, yes :)