Cauchemar makes room for the talker. PA SYSTEM: A special discussion group on Gorean Philosophy in the demo_room now! Veronique waves to MK MistressKim exclaims: We're delighted to have Morgan with us tonight to discuss Gorean Philosophy. I know that I, personally, have learned more since Morgan joined Iron Rose. I have a better understanding of what Gorean philosophy is, and I'm delighted that she's agreed to chat with us tonight! Kaliel takes a quiet place on the side of the room.. out of the way MistressKim says: Tonight's guidelines are Formal. MistressKim asks: Morgan will share information. If you have additional comments or questions, indicate so with ? and you'll be called upon when we pause for breaks. Cauchemar nods adn sips her soda. MistressKim exclaims: We ask that emotes and idle chatter be eliminated throughout the discussion. Without further ado, here's Morgan! Morgan says: Thank you Maam Voltaire smiles and pays attention. MistressKim writes a message on the board. MistressKim writes a message on the board. Morgan says: As sMk said .. i am morgan here ... my rl name is ciejye .. and i have been a practing Gorean style slave for nearly 20 years Morgan says: i say Gorean style because for nearly 17 of those years .. i didnt even know what Gor was Morgan says: say i knew i had a Master... who owned me body and soul .. Morgan says: say he didnt know gor .. but as i later learned .. he was Gorean .. Morgan says: most people know gor from IRC .. . Morgan says: or the books ... Morgan says: and there are a LOT of misconcetons .. Morgan says: Gorean philosophy is about honour Morgan says: integrety Morgan says: and brotherhood .. Morgan says: for a slave .. notethats slvae not sub ... it means to obey totally .. Morgan says: this doesnt mean Masters are cruel .. though they can be ... its just a different level ... a different mindset Orion says: zaria Morgan says: Gorean IRC is an extension of the Gor novels, popular during the late 1960's, 70's, and well into the late 80's here on Earth. These books were written by John Norman, the pen name of a sociology professor who applied his personal interest in the areas of human sexuality and ancient culture to the creation of a fantasy world wherein he could explore these topics. His creation spanned three decades and twenty-five novels, well over a million words of printed text. These books, though often frowned upon by the establishment, were best sellers, and many who read them understood the inherent philosophy within them and took them to heart, practicing aspects of the Gorean philosophy in their own lives. This continues to the very day. Morgan says: please note the comment .. FANTASY Morgan says: there isnt a place called Gor ,,, if you ask me for the address i wiould prolly look at you funny and giggle Morgan says: its about the feelings that are deeper within ... Morgan says: there is no place called Gor .. Morgan says: but Morgan says: there are people who espouse the philosophy of Gor .. and live it .. Morgan says: now .. today .. they live it Morgan says: Gor is a place where every man and woman, no matter who they are, are taken into account for who and what they are; where there are no limitations on the use of a man's strength; where there are no limitations on a woman's sexuality; an otherworldly garden where mankind has been forced to pick and choose what technological marvels will be accepted and utilized, and where foolish mankind is denied the opportunity of ever acquiring the ability to end life on his planet with the closing of a switch. Morgan says: in taking in the gorean philosophy you strive to be the best .. Morgan says: i am not saying that one is not the best in other bdsm venues .. Morgan asks: Gor is a philosophy which challenges the accepted moral codes and dictates of our modern Earth society, and which dares to ask the dreaded question: "Why?" Why do we live the way we do? Why do we think that way? In our rush to plunge into humanity's future, what valuable lessons might we have forgotten from humanity's past? Morgan says: A practicioner of Earth b/d/s/m might feel that he or she practices b/d/s/m because of his or her personal belief system; the Gorean feels that such things are a natural part of his or her existence. An Earth Dominant or submissive is one because he or she chooses to be; the Gorean practices D/s in his day to day affairs because he is Gorean. His entire philosophy and worldview is based upon the existence of the Dominance/submissiveness principal. Morgan says: While both Gorean philosophies and Earth b/d/s/m can exist together and complement one another, often the rigorous application of Gorean beliefs is considered by practicioners of Earth b/d/s/m to be rather silly and pointless, particularly since the world of Gor was created as the backdrop for a series of fictional novels. In the inverse, those who try to practice the Gorean philosophies often feel that, without a guiding philosophy which is a part of real life social interaction, that the practice of b/d/s/m is a trifle shallow and self-serving, D/s for its own sake, as it were. While neither belief system is mutally non-exclusive, the two practices often bump elbows with one another, Morgan says: The closest thing to fullblown Gorean slavery currently in practice in the b/d/s/m world is known as "Total Power Exchange" and is quite rare, as well as rather controversial. In the end, those who wish to practice Gorean interaction often utilize IRC as a safe, sane, consensual medium whereby the more severe aspects of Gorean slavery can be explored in a non-threatening, non-physical environment. But there are many who experience in the real world Morgan stops for a moment .. wondering if she has lost everyone Cauchemar says: not me Cauchemar grins. Veronique says: i'm okay Morgan grins MistressKim says: While we're paused, please indicate questions...if there are none we'll move on. MistressKim smiles Sirena asks: ? MistressKim asks: Sirena? Sirena asks: You have mentioned slave anddominant..are switch's included in the Gorean style? Cauchemar asks: ? Morgan says: no .. there are no switchs in that you can go back and forth ... you can start a Dominant ... then become slave .. but once a slave .. you can almost never go back MistressKim asks: Cauchemar? Cauchemar says: Please, as it may be assumed differently, compare adn contrast the roles of Gorean Master as to Free Woman with regards to slaves and slavery - and the role of FC's Cauchemar says: lagged Morgan says: Gorean Masters and Free Wopman alike are absolute leaders . they own slaves ... .. a Free woman can be a Free companion .. a mate .. wife .. but a slave never can Morgan says: Free companioon is the Gorean term for a mate .. like a spouse Morgan says: Goreans are, then, just people. Your Gorean persona is therefore just your own personality, as seen from a slightly different viewpoint. If you are a totally different person in channel than you are in real life, then not only are you missing the point of the channel, but you are setting yourself up for a big fall when your ruse wears thin. There is no reason to be anything but what you are. In fact, in such a forum, you can even allow yourself to be the secret person which you have concealed within yourself, and allow your wildest dreams and wishes to flower freely in a Gorean setting. That is the point of the whole thing. Be yourself... even your real, secret self. Morgan says: when relatying this to real life .. a Gorean .. be it Master FreeWoman or slave .. has the freedom to be who they are wihntin Morgan kicks her isp Morgan says: sorry .. Morgan says: one of the things said about Goreans ... they dont care for their salves ... they treat them like property Morgan says: its true .. they are property ... a slave begs the collar .. she takes it freely and willingly ... Morgan says: the Master .. takes the slave .. freely and willingly ... Morgan says: it IS concentual ... Morgan says: and Gorean Masters take care of their slaves .. Morgan says: its logical .. Morgan says: you own something .. someone .. but their choice .. Cauchemar asks: ? Morgan says: just because you may or may not call it property .. doesnt mean you cant love it or her ... and care for and protect it or her Morgan asks: if a Gorean Master allows his slave to come to harm .. then .. what kind of Master is he ? where is his honour ? ... Morgan says: in the same way .. by accepting a collar .. a slave is then bound to also care for her Maters property Morgan says: and that also means herself ... MistressKim asks: ? Morgan pauses for questions MistressKim asks: Cauchemar? Cauchemar asks: Is it also not true that unbranded or uncollared slaves are tarn fodder and target practice - unfed, unclothed and unkept? Better in Gor to be owned than wandering? Morgan says: okay .. i am talking mostly about real life Goreans .. not the channels ... i have brought some of that into play for clarification .. but .. in real life .. that doesnt happen MistressKim calls on herself MistressKim asks: Are there male slaves? Morgan steels herself :P Morgan says: Kajirus: These are male slaves. The slavery of males is of particular economic importance on Gor. Much of the common labor is done by gangs of male work slaves. A male unfortunate enough to be enslaved may find himself deep in a mine, chained to an oar, or entertaining crowds in an arena of combat. Male slaves are not the gender equivalent of female slaves. Although there are male passion slaves, they are usually regarded by Gorean free men and women as disgusting and twisted perversions of nature (Most Earth men are regarded in much the same way). Sirena asks: ? Morgan says: Gor is a male dominated society .. . MistressKim asks: Spanker? Morgan says: as such .. any male who would allow himself to become slave is treated badly Spanker says: thank you MistressKim, but you already asked my question MistressKim asks: Sirena? Sirena asks: Ive seen you in the lair Morgan, showing kneeling positions and other positions, do ppl really do those irl? and how important are they? Morgan says: yes .. people really do them in real life ... .. just last week i was at a play party .. ( bdsm) and a Gorean Master who was there .. called me over .. and said nadu .. Morgan kneels her ankles crossed...her legs parted widly ....her back and shoulders are straight...her full chest is thrust forward...belly in...hands on her thighs ...palm up...her head is up and her eyes are lowered ... Morgan says: i did it without thinking ... Morgan says: its a disapline ... Morgan says: like bowing or other things you do ... Voltaire asks: ? MistressKim asks: Voltaire? Morgan says: when i was first learning to be Masters slave ... he had me look in the mirror Cauchemar asks: ? Voltaire asks: So, a slave must obey not only her owner, but other Masters as well? Morgan says: to be aware of who i ws ... of the beauty he saw .. Morgan says: yes .. MistressKim asks: Cauchemar? MistressKim asks: ? Voltaire asks: ? Morgan says: its considered customary to obey all freepeople Morgan says: BUT Cauchemar says: I was wondering if you can show a typical "serve" and explain the elegance. Morgan says: you have to understand .. if your Master says to protect his property .. then you had better obey him first Morgan says: sure ... Sirena asks: ? Morgan moves to the bar ...hips swaying gracefully ...her body dripping with unspent passion and longing ....she reaches a large clay cup from the shelf ....caressing each breast for a moment with the edge ...she fills the cup with the rum and coke ... well chilled ....her mind noting how the vessel like a slave takes all that is offered ...places it to her heart ...the heart of a slave longing to please.... Morgan says: the serve is usually in three parts ... going to get the drink ... Morgan says: this shows a slaves sexuality .. her beauty .. her joy of serving Morgan hold the cup carefully and glides across the tavern to Master Citringer ...her step light and with a sway to make a Masters blood boil ....her eyes smoldering and locked on his ......her slave heart yearning for that which she does not ....nor cannot posess .....she slips to her knees before him ....the only position that she can assume as a slave ....... Morgan says: then once you have it ... you go back ... again .. beauty .. grace .. elegance ... Morgan says: you kneel to show your subserviance .. your place as it were Morgan raises the cup to her lips .....kissing the place where the Masters lips will touch ....licking the rim with a hot moist tongue ...her body quivering in a slaves longing and need .......she flicks her tongue over her ruby lips ....she offers it to Master Citringer...her voice soft and throaty with desire Morgan says: then the kiss ... this was done to show love .. devotion .. and to show its not poisioned :P Morgan says: may this drink and this slave both please you Morgan says: the saying is to show completion .. and as a verbal offer MistressKim asks: I was next... If male passion slaves are viewed as a perversion...am I correct to assume that Freed Women typically also have female slaves, and that lesbian sex is held in high esteem? Morgan says: gorean slaves are beautiful .. within .. and without Celeste says your arm stay raised tell he takes the drink....... there are many drinks...... and food that is served. Morgan says: homosexual sex happens .. andis not frowned upon as long as its not overt ... but .. typically .. Freewomen who take female slaves keep them as towerslaves Cauchemar asks: ? Morgan says: a towerslave is one who doesnt serve sexually MistressKim asks: Voltaire? Voltaire asks: If a slave must obey all masters, then what is the significance of specific, individual ownership? Morgan says: also . when servine .. you remain where you are .. till he sayd to go ... and .. often .. they forget :P Morgan says: you obey all Masters to the limitys your Master has given you MistressKim asks: Sirena? Celeste asks: ? Morgan says: my Master told me .. to not worship any feet ... so i couldnt do that .. Sirena asks: Who do the freed women have sex with ? Morgan says: not that i wanted to Morgan says: ohhh they have sex with their companions .. Morgan says: their mates .. . Sirena asks: could u explain further? Morgan says: freecompanion is like a marriage Sirena asks: like a vanilla person? Morgan says: Free Companion: Free companions are the closest thing to a spouse that a Gorean can have. This takes the form of a contract with another free person, usually of the opposite sex, for a period of one year. If not re-avowed on its anniversary, the contract is considered dissolved. Considering the life span of a Gorean is measured in centuries, not years, this is very practical. Free companionships are automatically dissolved if either is enslaved. Other Peoples Morgan says: no ... not really ... Morgan says: one can be a Gorean Master .. and not be into BDSM MistressKim asks: Cauchemar? Cauchemar asks: Morgan, would you please explain how Free Women can "lose their veils" and become enslaved? Morgan says: Perhaps the worse offense which can be performed against a freewoman is that of public facestripping, i.e. when the veils of a freewoman are removed from her by force. This is the equivalent of stripping her naked, though even the loss of her robes of concealment is not as great an insult as the loss of her veils. It is regarded as the right, duty and priviledge of Gorean freewomen of the high cities to remain veiled... even when captured by the Warriors of an enemy city, the freewoman will commonly be allowed to retain her veils at least until her final fate has been decided. Morgan says: eed, to a Warrior's mind, it is better by far to take the supplicant's life than to abandon her to be randomly enslaved by the first person who comes along. Believe it or not, in such a situation a Warrior is acting to preserve the honor of the former freewoman and her caste and family. Morgan acks .. and tries again Morgan says: If at any time, or for any reason, a freewoman decides that it is in her best interests either to become a slave or to openly submit herself to a male for his protection and use, this is accomplished by the performance of a formal gesture of submission by which she invokes the ancient Gorean "rite of submission." Many freewomen would rather die than perform such a subserviant act. It is important that a freewoman understand that when this rite is invoked, there is no going back. Typically there are only two possible outcomes when a freewoman submits so; either she is enslaved and becomes the personal chattel of the male, his to do with as he sees fit, or she is found lacking in desirability by the male in question and is driven from him in disgrace Morgan says: In the case of a Warrior, the consequences are even more dire, since a Warrior is not permitted by his codes to abandon the female while she is still alive. Therefore, most Warriors have no qualms whatsoever against putting the submitting female to death on the spot. Indeed, to a Warrior's mind, it is better by far to take the supplicant's life than to abandon her to be randomly enslaved by the first person who comes along. Believe it or not, in such a situation a Warrior is acting to preserve the honor of the former freewoman and her caste and family. Morgan says: The way the rite is invoked is this: the freewoman typically facestrips herself, publicly announces that she willingly submits to the individual she has chosen, and then assumes "the Position of Female Submission," wherein the freewoman kneels at her captor's feet and leans her body back, sitting upon her heels, with her arms extended upward, crossed at the wrists, and her head beneath them lowered in supplication. If the male accepts her, she becomes his slave and forfeits all titles, rank and property immediately. If he does not, she accepts the consequences of her actions, even if it means her death. It should be obvious that a freewoman does not invoke the Rite of Submission hastily or without much consideration, as the very act can cost her her life. MistressKim exclaims: I'd like to thank Morgan for taking this hour with us tonight! Morgan says: for you MistressKim Many Gorean freewomen possess kajiri, or male slaves. These serve many purposes... often they are servants and retainers, they may be utilized as pack bearers or manual laborers. Often a freewoman will be borne through the streets of her city in a curtained palanquin carried upon the backs of such male slaves. In addition, the wealthier and more free-thinking Gorean freewoman will also have within her household one or more "silk slaves," male slaves chosen for their handsomeness and sexual vigor, who have been trained to serve a Mistress sexually. This is quite acceptable, unless there is a law on the city scrolls which prohibits such sexual congress by free females. At the present time there is such a law in the city codes of Ar, though most wealthy women in the city act in secret and circumvent it fairly easily. Morgan smiles MistressKim smiles brightly. Thank you! MistressKim exclaims: I am hoping to get Morgan to write a little more about Gorean Philosophy for the Iron Rose Library...I'll see if I can persuade her. In the meantime, watch for this discussion group to be posted to the Interactive Discussion section of the Library over the next few days! MistressKim claps for Morgan! blush claps ..thank you Morgan Sirena claps loudly Celeste says: thank you Morgan......... Morgan blushes " thank you Voltaire smiles. Celeste smiles good class MistressKim says: Nicely done, Morgan. I really appreciate your time. Kaliel bows. thank you, Morgan Veronique says: thankyou Morgan Morgan says: thank you Maam PA SYSTEM: New Users are now allowed. pup claps and yelps approvingly Lizzy says: nice job Morgan Morgan blushes deeply ..