Domming 101
with Kim

Feel free to link directly here, or email kim@iron-rose.com

MistressKim says: This whole thing came about because a member of IR asked me how to "end a scene."  This person said they were so new, they barely knew WHAT to ask...and didn't want technique information. They wanted to know more about how to handle situations. So the situation we talked about, and the one I thought we'd open up with tonight, is how to end the scene when the dominant is ready.

Let's face it, if all has gone well the sub is having a grand time. But there comes a point when enough is enough. The dominant is tired, emotionally we're strung out and have gone from "yippee" glassy eyed to "oh wow I'm beyond comprehension" glassy eyed... or it's just time. "Oh well, that's it, see you later" is probably not a good bet.

A sub needs time to transition, and there are a number of ways to handle it.  For those of you who may have poo-poo'd ritual in the past, this is where ritual comes in very handy.

If after I flog the sub, at the end of the scene, I *always* rub them down with moisturizer (a good thing to do because flogging pulls moisture from the skin, increases zits, and flaking)... then as soon as the moisturizer comes out the sub can start to shift head space, and I never have to say anything. If we're doing role play...let's say age play...if I always make the little boy/girl pick up their toys at the end of the scene, as soon as that order is given they can start to transition. Puppies can get a good tummy rub... joints get rubbed for people who like tight bondage... You can also start to transition by changing how you address the sub.

I personally love humiliation...so when it's time to move play into "normal" headspace, that stops and I start calling the sub by a pet name (pun intended) and as we move even closer to "real space" you can call them by their given name instead of a nickname.

The person I was speaking to asked about when the sub resists moving into "real space". They felt awkward and didn't know how to end it.  If you let the subs get away with this you're letting them top from the bottom. You're messing up the power structure. When it's time to end...it's time to end.  Hints and ideas I gave to the person who asked included speaking in the past tense.  Again, role play for age play..."you were such a good little girl weren't you buttercup!"  Past tense for the child...current calling her by her name. For those who love humiliation..."you were such a good little <insert great humilating phrase here> weren't you precious?"

When all else fails...I move to "wow that scene left me thirsty, time for us to get a glass of water! I'll be right back with one (or here's one I left on the table before we started) and we can drink it and snuggle!"

But my favorite way to signal the sub is through ritual. It's seamless. it's comfortable. I worked with someone on age play, and the last thing I always did was to powder their tush!

Scarlett asks: Do you stop play when you see you are being topped from the bottom?
MistressKim asks: that's tricky. Are you asking me personally or as you asking what a dominant should do?
Scarlett says: Either.
MistressKim says: I personally end the scene.
Scarlett says: I suppose "should" is going to be personal anyway.
MistressKim says: I have no time, and no patience, for someone who wants to tell me what to do.  There are dominants who try to grab the power structure back... If I own the person I do too. Immediately. But for casual play? I have no patience. Every sub will try to top from the bottom at some point. Guaranteed. You have to decide when you'll invest emotionally to correct it, and when you'll ignore it and walk away.  It's part of subs getting their emotional needs met. They're checking to see if you love them enough to yank them back into line.

buttercup says: exactly
Scarlett says: Right. Thank you. :)

MistressKim says: Although subs who start off by topping from the bottom are usually just trying to get their fantasies met and have no interest in the dominant as a person. But I've yet to meet a sub who won't at SOME point. <wink>

MrChris asks: so, if you as Domme, MK..decide it's over...you just grab the moisturizer or powder...did you previously discuss this with your sub on what that means?
MistressKim says: I do very standard "beginning" scenes with people. The same, every time. Ok almost every time.

MistressKim says: for example, the first flogging scene never goes more than an hour...and we try out everything the sub has any interest in, and I try to get them to do ONE thing they think they're afraid of...and then I tell them "this may surprise you but our hour is up" and I rub them down with moisturizer explaining why. The next time, they know what to expect...

MistressKim exclaims: role play with age play...the first time I did the powder I said things like (I can't remember exactly) "and now we've had enough play time with the little boy/girl and I'm going to powder you before nap!" So I was speaking to them, still as a child...telling them we were transitioning. When I put them down for a "nap" I snuggled with them, and we lay there for a few moments with me stroking their hair, and then we started our "that was FUN!" talk. Does that help?
MrChris says: yes, thank you.... very much.  And you employ the same 'ritual' to get them into the space??

MistressKim says: Many dominants miss the point that a "scene" starts long before you pull out the whips and chains. The BEST book on this is "Leathersex" by Joseph Bean. Even though it's written for the gay community, and you may not be part of the gay
community, get it...it's amazing. I'll use a personal example from today for "starting the scene"

MistressKim says: If I'm just sitting chatting with a sub, it's equal-to-equal. I feel very strongly about that personally.  Which is why we run IR that way. This sub was smart...he (it was a gent) asked me if I would like a drink... a non-threatening way to express his interest...which was nice and polite...and I made sure I understood and he wasn't just being "friendly"...and we moved into more "me Dom you sub" headspace. He asked me a few questions...(VERY good) and then I asked him a question. Keep in mind he'd told me he was trained. When I asked him the question, he took it as the opportunity to start his spiel about his life story and how he got to the lifestyle. That's fine for a friend, but not to a dominant when you're "applying" I said "If the next words out of your mouth are not the answer to my question, this  conversation is over." We had already started the power structure.

MistressKim says: Bean's example is more extreme, and great... This is a paraphrase. But he says that if the dominant has a drink with  you in the bar, and you've flirted and expressed an interest, if the dominant tells you "piss yourself down into your boots right here" determines where things go...Even if the sub doesn't...things can still go great places... but wow you have some power structure! So there you have a simple start, and an extreme start. <grin>

MistressKim says: I have a delightful sub who plays with me every once in a while with pony play.  One of the things that delights him about me is that he can never tell when I'll be "Just Kim" and when I'll grab him as "Domme Kim." I like the whole Victorian image of me in a great "hunting gown" like they used to have for pony play so as soon as my speech gets more "formal"  (in my pathetic mind, "Victorian") he knows we're into role play and he can start to  prance about and paw at the ground. <grin> Of course, reaching out and yanking someone's hair and bringing them to their knees works really well too. But you'd better know for SURE they'll like it before you do or you'll get arrested. <grin>

MistressKim says: For more grand scenes...I like to start by telling the sub to take a shower. I have a special tone I use when I say it so they know when they get OUT of the shower I'll have transformed the living space into "BDSM space" You can do that in cyber too. "We'll wait until I finish my soda...about 10 minutes. Go get yourself water to drink, crackers to munch to help ground you when we're done, hit the restroom, and I'll see you back here in 10."  If they're late...now you know how to start the scene. <winkity wink wink>

Scarlett asks: I'd love to hear a discussion on timing using with scenes. Irl and virtually, I just seem to plan way too much, and it goes on an eternity.  Any hints?
MistressKim says: you sound like me, Scarlett.  If you KNOW you plan too much...then start setting time limits. You have the rest of your life to torture this poor soul. <wink>  Anything that's not done by the time your time is up...save it till next time. Or you can cycle down... Have the sub feed you...have the sub rub your  feet...have the sub curl by you while you rest your feet on them and you watch a BDSM  movie...do that for 1/2 hour to an hour, then start up again

Scarlett asks: So you can do something decent in an hour?
MistressKim says: Depends how long you have. But you cannot maintain the wild rush all day.  It doesn't happen. You'll burn your sub out. You can easily go beyond an hour once you've  been working with someone...I just start at an hour.  Plan "exciting" and plan "servitude".

MistressKim says: I jokingly call it "juice time" It's like when the kindergarten kids have  been running around screaming for an hour and you cool them down with cookies and juice You have to let the sub catch their breath at some point. Not necessarily right at an hour. What's most important is that you end things when you're tired, Scarlett, or when you see your sub is tired. Lots of water will help your scene go longer. They sweat. Even if they're not dripping. Trust me, they're sweating.  And you are too. So don't be shy about drinking yourself. Prevents that lightheaded feeling Although sometimes the little darlings are just  lightheaded. <wink wink>

MistressKim says to Scarlett: if it helps, when I first realized how over optimisitic I was with timing... I would draw up a list of what I wanted to do that scene and cross half off immediately. That's how bad I was.  Waxing...oh my. planning that for me was awful. I only calculated the fun of putting it *ON*. Of course you have to get it *OFF* too!

MrChris asks: MK, do you ever just wing it, depending on your mood??
MistressKim says: Yes. I do.  But that's with someone I have worked with extensively in the past...or a sub who has really gotten my attention in a surprising way early.  That makes me remember "my best come on line."

MistressKim says: it's hard to get my eyes to bug out early on. But sometimes it can be done. <grin> My best come on line ever...and he didn't say a word.  He didn't kneel by me, he knelt at a respectful distance...But made sure he caught my eye and that I knew it was for me...
and then lowered his eyes.
and waited.
and waited.
and WAAAAIIIIITED
ok now I'm intrigued.
MistressKim exclaims: cuz in cyber, usually it's "RIGHT NOW!!  Pay attention to me now! DO ME DO ME RIGHT NOW WHIP ME HARD!"  MistressKim fans herself. Oh my yes that technique gets me hot.
MrChris asks: this was cyber??
MistressKim says to MrChris: yes it was cyber.  That's my best cyber come on. Ever.
MrChris asks: how did he get your eye contact??
MistressKim says: in a .tell
MrChris says: ahhh....
MistressKim says: he .telled that he gazed from across the room, and caught my eye.  So he never even put me on the spot in public.  Which was really hot. I mean *really* hot!  I was impressed.

MrChris asks: MK, did ;you .tell him that you were ignoring him ?? or did ;you just ignore him
Jezebel asks: how long did he wait? :)
MistressKim grins wicked. I just ignored him.
MrChris says: wow....good...
MistressKim says: he waited a good 15 minutes. and did NOT hit on anyone else. Which in cyber is an hour.
MrChris laughs
Kerr says: Ohhhh.. that's so cruel.
Methos says to MistressKim: ROFL... ;)
Scarlett asks: How did you know he wasn't hitting on anyone else?
buttercup thinks about that
MistressKim exclaims: oh SCARLETT!  MistressKim slumps crushed
MrChris has to admit that in cyber he too tends to get impatient...wnating more action sooner than he would irl
buttercup giggles
Amanda laughs
Kerr exclaims: Acks!
buttercup asks: isnt that a part of cyber though?
MistressKim says: my favorite line ever and it's destroyed. <sobs>
Scarlett smiles and pats MK.. sorry.

Methos agree's with MrChris
MrChris says: well, yes, bc..since you can't see them....
Amanda says: the novelty of someone who goes slow is verrrry sexy...people dont even try to use 'dramatic tension' anymore, its sad
MrChris says: so you want to maintain interest...maybe. I do irl, buttercup But find it Very diff on cyber
Jezebel agrees. taking ones time is so appealing..
MistressKim says: I tell people up front that I wait so long chances are they'll have moved on by the time I decide. And that's what happens. <grin>
Methos says: I only enjoy the long wait if it's original material... well thought thru...
Angela has that same problem with going slow

MistressKim says: ok let's talk a bit of power structure. Subs WILL push. That's part of how they know their limits. You have to decide when you'll have a sense of humor and when you're not going to tolerate it. Because no one can live getting crushed every time they make a smart mouthed comment.
Methos asks: how far should we LET them push themselves and us?
Kerr exclaims: As long as Dom/mes push too! :)
MistressKim says to Methos: I let them push me as far as it tickles my fancy in the moment. I make no apologies for being rough once, and lenient the next.  After all, half the fun is..."as soon as you figure out the rules, I'll change them."  However, you have to have some way to let them know enough is
enough. For me, it's one word. "behave"

MistressKim says: if I say it, the sub had best stop everything. I've told this story before, but when X  and I were together, we were at a vanilla party and he was telling a very funny story which was a *little* off color.  X is a VERY funny man, but I knew the hostess wouldn't like the ending. So I murmured  softly "behave". Later I was teased that whatever I said must have cut out his tongue. The change was instantaneous. silence. eyes down. BOOM.

buttercup says: when a sub wants attention.. how should they express that without seeming to be bratty.  has a hard time with that
MistressKim says: that's up to the dominant. Some dominants LIKE bratty There's someone for everyone! I personally find it annoying. What I say is...YOU know us! If I'm your dominant, you know me well enough to seduce me. Being sub doesn't mean that you don't have responsibilities to the relationship. I'm a  sucker for begging. Beg me...and I go through the roof. I'll have the sub's clothes off in 2 seconds flat. They get what they want, I get what I want... MistressKim winks. You know your dominant. SEDUCE them!

Amanda says: how about if you dont know the Dominant Mk <smile> if you are trying to make that inital impression

alonwy says: I find that going shopping with my Top tends to get her going we go to the craft store, look at the candles.....I show her some new things I think of for toys...and she ends up trying them out on me

MistressKim says to Amanda: if you don't know the dominant, do things you think will please. Make yourself pretty. play with your hair. position yourself. speak with your eyes. part your lips and lean forward attentively when they talk. MistressKim nods. For RL alonwy's idea is fab. And cyber I suppose! Give them a gift of what you want them to try on you! WIN WIN! (and the gift doesn't have to be expensive!) 

alonwy says: listening attentively, online or real life, is always a good thing.

MistressKim says: X surprised me once by lighting candles throughout the room, and having a juicy pear for me. He knows I love them, and he had selected one just for me. It was a "gift" but it was very inexpensive. and yes, it got me going. <grin> He rubbed my feet while I ate the pear and the juice dripped down my chin. That was nirvana!
MrChris says: I at times get stumped on telling them to be creative...hoping they will do so on their own
alonwy once gave her Top some chocolate milk, some oreos, and a foot rub. Ma'am doesn't always  get to indulge in treats
MistressKim says to MrChris: isn't that a dud. If you have to tell them to be creative, why bother. MistressKim covers her mouth. who said that.

MistressKim says: Always always ALWAYS keep your word to your sub. If you say "If you finish mowing that lawn you'll get a nice shower, and some water sports, and then I'll tuck you in and sing you a song" you *DO* that. It is the little things that make a dominant and keep the sub's trust.
Amanda thinks that is the most important point you have made all evening Mk
alonwy says: yes, very true
MistressKim says: Pat Califia writes a very good story on that in "Macho Sluts" It's one line from one story, but it's so true... If you promise the sub will get tied up  before bed, even if you've got a splitting headache... you better *DO* it!  Begging off is in rare rare rare occasions. By the same token, never threaten. Don't say you'll do something you won't follow through on.

MistressKim says: If I tell the sub "do that once more and I won't speak to you for a week" then that's what has to happen if they do it. So make sure you can follow up on  what you say you'll do for discipline. The first time you DON'T...you start to erode the power structure. Because THIS is when they'll push. "Do that again and I'll give you 20 with the paddle" means that if they do it again they GET 20 with the paddle. not "do that again and I really mean it this time...I'll give you..." That tactic doesn't work with kids in the grocery store and it doesn't work with subs. "do that again and I mean it this time..." piffle. They got you figured out from the word go! 

MistressKim says: I'll leave you with a thought about limits...It's not original so don't  give me credit. When a sub tries to "lure" me by telling me they have "no limits" my answer is "oh good. I've always wanted to try the ballpoint-pen-in-the-eyeball scene"

Methos grins
Amanda laughs
MrChris laughs
Scarlett laughs

MistressKim says: they get limits real quick.

Methos says to MistressKim: ROFL... thats a good one... :)

MistressKim says: if they don't have any limits, they're into the fantasy not the reality. Don't take responsibility for doing their thinking.  There's nothing wrong with being NEW and not KNOWING for sure and over time we'll stretch their limits anyway.

Amanda says: my favorite line from 'the bottoming book' was the sub who said she would do ANYTHING for her Master, no limits at all..and the author asked her what she would do if her Master woke up tomorrow and decided they were going to change to a vanilla relationship from then on <grin>

MistressKim says: but they should have a starting place. I recommend the BDSM Questionnaire in the Library as a starting point. If nothing else, it opens up dialog  because new people don't know what everything *IS* on the list. 

alonwy says: I have to admit, Mistress Kim, I thought Urethral sounds was some new kind of music
MistressKim cracks up about sounds. Yes alonway...the composer is Prostate.

MrChris asks: how do you use that virtually, mk? I"ve wanted to use that on here...not sure  how. Tell them to go read it??

MistressKim says to MrChris: I still make them fill it out. Then I can see if our interests  mesh If I like all the stuff they have listed.  If not why bother?

MrChris asks: do they email it to you filled out or ??
MistressKim says: they email it to me filled out, yes.  I review it, and ask for clarification.  I explain anything they're not sure of to them.  This is one of the first tests.  If the sub is a smart mouth with me, or impatient to get past this point...I end it there. One of my lines... "If what *I* want to do is sit around talking about the drift of the earth's plates, what will we do?" They'd better answer "Talk about tectonic plate shifts, MK." That's a good way to weed the "fulfill my fantasy!" ones out. <grin>

MistressKim says: for RL training... and in cyber too... The lesson I think is most important for a new sub... is that the person who holds the tool doesn't determine who's in charge. Give them a whip and have them hold it. Kneel down in front of them, and ask them, "who's in charge?" If they say they are...grab a foot and shift them off balance.  Then try again. [editor's note: Make sure you do this on tumbling mats, or someplace soft. It is so inconvenient if you have to rush the sub to the hospital]

MistressKim says: It's not who's standing, or kneeling, or who's holding the tool or not. It's who has the power. Power structure is everything. I think that's one of the big things people miss.

Feel free to link directly here, or email kim@iron-rose.com