Moderator: MK
Note: Anything expressed below is personal opinion and based on personal experience. There is a wide diversity in the BDSM community, and we like it that way.
MistressKim pulls out her lunch. I like brown bag discussion groups.
Rhea grins.
Shasha smiles. Shasha didn't bring hers
Ancilla smiles
Eilan curls up in a chair.
MistressKim says: We're going to keep this informal, so feel free to jump in.
It's a chance to ask questions and cover the basics without feeling like
you're asking anything "stupid". Everyone has to start somewhere. There is no stupid, but it can be
intimidating when you feel like you're the ONLY ONE IN THE WORLD who doesn't know the
answer. <grin>. So starting with the most basic basic...BDSM stands for bondage,
discipline, sadism, masochism. No, we do not want to injure or abuse people.
Justice asks: the last two giving and receiving "pain"?
Mister says: Pain can be good.
MistressKim says: if you will, yes. Although pain does NOT have to be a part of what we do. There are some people who get their fulfillment from serving drinks on a tray...That's the epitome of fulfillment for them...and there's nothing wrong with that at all. Often the transformation of pain to pleasure *is* a part of what we do, but it is not a requirement. Screw the Roses says a sadist is someone who derives sexual pleasure from the giving of pain, humiliation, and/or domination.
Justice says: the thought of SM always brought to mind severe beating and such...I have been learning different though
Spider says: Excellent book.
Mister says: Justice, too much TV and film drama dwells on SM people as murderers.
Justice nods
MistressKim says: I had never thought "sadism" included folks who enjoyed
domination without pain personally... so their definition gives me room for thought and re-evaluation.
Eilan asks: MistressKim, when you say pain, do you mean physical pain exclusively?
MistressKim says: I'm thinking. Can you hear the rocks rattling?
Eilan grins.
MistressKim says: I'm going to say yes.
Justice chuckles
Spider can.
MistressKim says: I don't want to cause someone emotional "pain"
Justice asks: but isn't humiliation a form of mental pain?
Eilan asks: Then, what is humiliation?
MistressKim says: Humiliation is tricky. Done well it is NOT painful emotionally.
Mister says: I see it both as spiritual (or psychic) and physical.
MistressKim says: it is exhilarating, exciting, but not painful.
Justice doesn't understand that
MistressKim says: if the sub feels BAD about themselves after "humiliation" it
was "abuse".
Eilan says: But, that links 'pain' with 'bad'...
MistressKim says: humiliation, done well, makes a sub feel cherished and special...or free
and wild... I can distinguish between "pain" and "injury"
physically, I will be glad to give you pain physically, but not injury.
Mister nods
MistressKim says: emotionally, in my head, I can't say the emotional "pain" is
ok. Not for me. Personally. I'm not judging anyone else...just saying for me.
Justice asks: injury being something lasting more than a few minutes?
MistressKim says: If I discipline my sub I expect them to be upset. But I don't do that for enjoyment.
MistressKim says: Justice...injury would be trip to the doctor stuff for me.
MistressKim says: a cutting can last for weeks, but if it was consensual I wouldn't
consider it "injury"
Seeker says: hmmmm even though it was consensual I'd still consider that injury.
but maybe not abusive injury
Justice says: me too
MistressKim says: and for you that's fine...but they do not require a trip to the
hospital... it is not a permanent scar...
Mister says: I've seen great injuries, still consensual, and not considered injuries.
MistressKim says: even a permanent scar, if consensual, I wouldn't consider injury.
Justice asks: how is cutting not a permanent scar?
Mister says: Not black-and-blue, but temp. piercings, welts and blisters.
MistressKim says: ok...for me...breaking your leg even if consensual...THAT is an injury.
To me.
Seeker says: well injure myself all the time and never go to the hospital
Eilan asks: Going back to individual interpretation?
MistressKim says: Justice, what creates a scar is tearing the tissue. If you have a
cutting it heals.
Mister nods to Eilan
MistressKim says: they ink cuttings to make them show up permanently.
Spider says: So, I guess it is really a decision that is made between the people
involved...no right or wrong answer.
MistressKim says: you'd be amazed at how much your body will heal without a mark.
Justice says: I guess so, I have many scars from growing up
MistressKim says: Tons of room for interpretation <nodding to Spider>
StormCat says: How you heal a cut depends very much on your skin. Some people scar very very easily
MistressKim says: the only attitude that's destructive is "my kink is ok yours
isn't" Well, ok, I can think of others that are destructive too.
Mister applauds MK
MistressKim says: like the..."you're a sub and I'm a dom, so I'll treat you without
respect" attitude. That's destructive.
Spider asks: Damn, you mean, I've been subbing to my boss all this time? *smile*
MistressKim laughs hard!
Justice snickers
Seeker asks: but in most cases if it's all consensual and each person knows the limits
then the pain should never lead to abuse?
MistressKim exclaims: no it means she has a lousy attitude!
Geena lol
MistressKim says: actually, in BDSM "abuse" more often happens emotionally than
physically. But yes, if its consensual and both parties respect each other's limits,
we're not being abusive. And yes, dominants have limits too. Just because the sub wants to play
with scat does NOT mean I have to.
Eilan smiles.
Spider asks: So how does mind fucking enter into all of this? And are there any particular
sign a newbie sub should look for?
Justice asks: why only a sub, Spider?
MistressKim says: My biggest caution to a newbie is "patience patience patience"
Lots of unwanted tells are a good sign, Spider. Newbies get so excited and want to jump right in.
They want to play with anyone who's interested (both dom and sub here)
Eilan shakes her head. I learned more in the 6 weeks I did nothing then I could tell
someone.
MistressKim says: it's NEW it's FUN...it's...STUPID
Spider says: Because I have a met so many lately Justice...that I think are too eager for
their own good.
MistressKim says: for one, you should know someone before you play...
Domcasual smiles and tips his hat
MistressKim says: or have done serious negotiation.
Mister agrees with that.
Eilan agrees.
MistressKim says: which...newbies don't know how to do.
MistressKim says: don't get me wrong...IRL you DO play with folks you don't know...but
it's with negotiation negotiation negotiation
Domcasual says: you mean SOME do, and others find it unsafe
MistressKim says: I mean it is a practice that happens IRL. I do not mean to point a
finger and say you personally do, DC.
Domcasual says: I know, just hoping to squash generalizations
Mister says: I took a RL slave about a year ago. Even though we'd written extensively
before meeting, when we finally did play, I asked what her limits were. She told me she had none, so I followed a fellow dom's example from
TES:
Mister asks: I held her nipple and brought scissors up under it. "Are you sure?"
Then we negotiated. You are right about negotiation.
MistressKim says: My happy response to the sub who says they have no limits is "oh
good, I've always wanted to try the pen in the eyeball scene"
Seeker asks: for someone who has never really assumed a role D or S, what is the best way
to learn the proper conducts? talk to those with experience?
Eilan would laugh, but that really isn't funny.
MistressKim says: Observation and discussion works best for me, Seeker. Spider...anyone who wants to move too fast for the sub would concern me.
Any time someone (dom or sub) feels things are going too fast or
"pressure" warning bells go off in my head.
Seeker asks: and how does one observe when most play goes on in private?
MistressKim thinks.
Spider nods...I agree..but still see a lot of it.
MistressKim says: The "oh baby suck my dick while I flog you" aspect of it is
really a small part. If that's the part you want to witness...then you can find that at quite
a few places
Eilan says: You'd be surprise just how much occurs in public. Not the obvious punishment,
but the power lines that exist between people.
Eilan says: You have to *watch*, not just look.
MistressKim says: we also do quite a bit of public stuff...voyeur is an example...
but that is really just personal style.
Seeker says: I guess I don't hang out long enough to notice it or don't know who's
involved with who to pick things out
Mister upgrades his power lines
Eilan says: Do a lot of ex-ing...
Seeker asks: is there such a thing as apprenticing like in the trades? :-)
Domcasual nods
Mister says: Yes, Seeker.
MistressKim says: Yes, there is. It's called "training"
You can be training with someone. Dominants also train.
Eilan says: Master Phoenix was my teacher and general person to talk to before anything
else.
Seeker says: that's what I meant a dom training a dom
MistressKim says: yes, dominants train dominants.
Justice asks: how? sitting in on a session?
MistressKim says: Sitting in on a session, working with the tools...
Domcasual says: practice theory practice and practice too
Justice asks: how do you practice something you don't understand?
Domcasual says: well, that's where the theory comes in
Eilan says: Then watch and ask questions.
MistressKim says: Justice...gotta start somewhere.
Domcasual says: take little steps
MistressKim says: "here's a whip...take a swing at this padded bench"
Spider asks: Is it not appropriate for one dom to approach another with questions? Surely,
one can start that way...and we do have dom_discussion here, right?
MistressKim says: "ok, now I'll tell you what's wrong with your form. Try
again..." "and again..." Spider...I wish we had a stronger dom community.
Spider says: So do I. *smile*
Domcasual says: I've always felt open to talking shop
MistressKim says: We try to encourage dominants to network. Doms in cyber seem less of a cohesive support network than they do IRL.
My opinion.
Domcasual nods I agree MK
Spider says: I agree...and a stronger dom community would ultimately help the sub
community as well.
MistressKim says: yes. comments in private... include "dominants who try to steal subs"
Which I personally don't respect at all. the D/s bond is sacred in my
book... and "dominants with cocky attitude". If their attitude is
cocky, don't bother asking them for advice. I've personally found the dominants who have
at least a SMIDGEN of self-depreciating humor know more than the posturing baboons.
Spider couldn't agree more.
Domcasual exclaims: hey, I like posturing!
Spider says: You would, DC. :)
MistressKim says: I rest my case.
Kabili chuckles
atma grins
Justice grins
MistressKim says: ok...someone throw out one of those newbie questions.
MistressKim says: you know...the kind EVERYONE knows but you. or at least it feels that way.
Eilan asks: Here's one. How do you know if you are dom, sub, switch, or none?
atma says: oh, ok, what's the difference between a sub and a slave
MistressKim says: atma...personal preference in what to call the person (sub/slave)
MistressKim says: Eilan: how you derive pleasure from the scene. (how to know if dom, sub, switch, or none)
it's not who's holding the whip that decides it, actually. it's how they get satisfaction from the scene.
and of course chatting it up, exploration.
Domcasual says: I have a bit of a question when we have a sec
MistressKim says: no crime in changing what you think about yourself over time.
MistressKim says: go for it DC
Eilan asks: Is it 'normal' if one thinks one is a switch to be a dom or sub for awhile
before becoming both?
Domcasual says: well, I have my own answer but... who's really in charge? the dom or the sub?
MistressKim says: Eilan...we're all pervs. Don't worry about being normal. <wink>
Domcasual says: or domme
Seeker suddenly feels normal
Eilan grins. I know. Just something I've been thinking about concerning my own actions.
MistressKim says: we'll table that age old debate, DC, and stick to the newbie questions.
You know as well as I that issue gets beat into the ground.
MistressKim says: Eilan...follow what you feel at the time. That's the best any of us can
do.
Domcasual says: well true, but its something that a lot of newbies may like to consider
but tabling is cool we can maybe chat about it after
Seeker says: my slant would be that the sub allows it to happen and the dom makes it
happen
MistressKim says: There are a lot of people who are "usually" one way or the
other... and "occasionally" the opposite. (often sub, occasionally
toppish, etc etc)
Eilan says: Just a matter of degree...
atma asks: er, is an attraction for D/s showing something wrong with the person, I read
psychological 'proofs' referring to bad childhood etc? atma blushes at her typos, and well, it's not my question, really
MistressKim says: I know folks with perfectly happy childhoods who are into D/s.
Eilan had a happy childhood! My mother made great rice crispy treats.
MistressKim says: but I'm sure there are studies out there that think we're all whacko.
<grin>
Spider says: I think people need to get over the idea that those into the scene are
warped...I mean, come on.
Justice asks: what would you call someone who isn't strongly inclined one way or the
other, yet still assumes the roles?
MistressKim asks: mmmm..."exploring" maybe Justice? I'm not sure, to be honest.
What would you call it, Justice?
Justice says: confusion
MistressKim says: which implies it's not comfortable.
atma asks: mm, is it kind of what the gay community went through before being more
established then, prejudice being made official?
Justice says: to be strongly right wing or left, yes
MistressKim says: If someone were comfortable in that space, I'd call it more "role
playing" if you call it confusion, it sounds like the person is still exploring.
Domcasual nods Nice observation MK
Seeker asks: isn't it an ongoing exploration ... or should be?
MistressKim says: atma: I'm not sure the BDSM community will ever be accepted. But that's
ok with me.
Seeker asks: excepted by whom? the majority? who'd want that? :-)
MistressKim says: Seeker...here's hoping. but we start fine tuning over time rather than
changing hemisphere.
Teryl says: some circles of psychiatry still classify us as a personality disorder
atma smiles, but god it's so annoying to sit and hear the 'experts' tell all the 'why's'
you know?
Spider says: Well, I've always have one disorder or another. *smile*
atma says: I mean they'd never get away with saying someone's gay because of a bad
childhood, at least not where I live
MistressKim says: I was dominant before I knew there was a word for it. I don't think they
can point fingers and label "why" conveniently on us.
MistressKim asks: newbie questions?
MistressKim asks: something you've been dying to ask? If we're all set we're all set. scatter to the winds...
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