Dec-29 10:00 PM Begging Discussion Group: Dominants seem to have a fondness for begging. But how does one truly do it effectively? What are some things to avoid when begging and some thing that will help you out to know? Come join us for tips, tricks, and pitfalls to begging effectively. Demonstration possible... if you beg for it ;) Moderator: Caitlyn

Caitlyn gets her log file FINALLY set and hops up on the platform.

Kerr smiles at Caitlyn and quietly pays attention

Caitlyn exclaims: Welcome everyone to one of the first discussion groups I've done on IR in a long time!  Thank you all for coming, it's wonderful to see so many faces interested in this topic.

Kerr coughsNeedItcoughs

Caitlyn grins. I'm not deluded enough to think you're coming to see little ol' me ;)   I note with great relief there are dominants in the audience, I'll be counting on you for input as well.  After all, if a submissive is going to beg, we have to have someone to beg TO, don't we?  But first, why don't we take a few moments to talk about what exactly begging is?

winka raises her hand

Caitlyn says: Merriam-Webster, that fine resource for all things we want to define, calls begging asking for something earnestly

Rebecca kneels next to Prophet.

Caitlyn asks: yes winka?

winka asks: does begging have to be in the form of a request or can it be used for other things as well?

Caitlyn says to winka: good question. One can certainly make a request by begging. But I think the thing that comes to mind for me is being made to beg for something, an orgasm perhaps.  I noted while I was looking over the definition that begging has a number of synonyms and that when we beg we cover a wide variety of them as well as the text book definition of begging. We can entreat (persuade) or beseech (great eagerness or anxiety) or supplicate (which adds humility)

Caitlyn says: and I think we probably all add in a little of all of those, if not more in order to beg really effectively Caitlyn grins. A few of us may even importune or use an annoying persistence when we're trying to break down resistance to a request. We're going to try and see if we can steer ourselves away from that, hmm?  Caitlyn doesn't think annoying persistence is really going to get her (or anyone) many of the things she wants.

Caitlyn asks: now that we've got a definition and know what we're talking about, what does begging really mean?  We are always asking for something we want when we beg. ALWAYS.Caitlyn says: (at least to me)  I know, I know, I can hear the grumbles starting already, "But what about if we really don't want to do what we're begging for?"  I never said we were always begging for the object or activity we wanted. But we're always begging for a reason.  Maybe it's a desire to please or maybe we want to change a decision that's been made, or maybe we REALLY do want something.  But we are always begging for something we want.

Caitlyn asks: We've established that we're begging for something we want, but how do we do it effectively?  And what do we seriously want to avoid?  Let's start with the "Don'ts," shall we?  I've got a few to get us started.

Caitlyn says: Repetition.  It's bad. Very, very bad.  Let me repeat that ;)   Repetition, it's bad.  Caitlyn exclaims: "please, oh please, oh please, Mistress, hurt me please oh please!" is not begging.   or... it's not GOOD begging.  and it's probably not going to get you what you want.

Caitlyn says: Avoid melodrama like the plague.   "Oh Mistress, please hurt me before I perish from the absence of your touch."  Caitlyn winces.  Which brings up another point, and I know you're going to find this one shocking, really.  Don't LIE   Caitlyn slaps her forehead. For heaven's sake, if you're going to lie about something, don't lie during this.

Caitlyn asks: What happens when you say that you want this more than anything and that you love it dearly but you HATE it?  You're stuck.  So don't do it. Mean what you say.

Caitlyn says: Also to go along with "Avoid melodrama," avoid being obsequious.  Caitlyn says: What a great word... obsequious.  Meaning fawning attentiveness.  Being eloquent is one thing, being obsequious is another.  You really won't perish without their touch. Don't say it.

Caitlyn asks: What other Don'ts should we add?

Lucius asks: How about "don't bargain?"
Rebecca says: And Don't whine.
Kristine says: those are good ones
Caitlyn says: Two good ones.  Most definitely.  You're begging, not bargaining.

Caitlyn says: The time for bargaining has passed you by <grins>  And for the love of Pete, please don't whine!

Kristine says: don't make up the doms mind for them, either... "I know you can't forgive me but..." etc

Caitlyn says to Kristine: excellent!  Do you REALLY want to be telling the Dominant what they're thinking and feeling? Your task probably just got a lot harder if you do that.

Caitlyn says: Don't make it all about "you"

Caitlyn says: Or, to move into the "do's," make sure you at least MENTION the person you're begging  The Dominant is sort of important in this process after all.  What else can you do?  Well, for starters, and this is very important, make sure you write this down if you're taking notes   RELAX!   Remember how to breathe.

Caitlyn says: Now, I have my own little tricks for when I have to beg, they may or may not work for you, please feel free to use what does and chuck the rest.  I don't know about most of the subs in here, but I feel damned ridiculous when I have to beg.

Bandit says: amen sistah

Caitlyn says: I can only do it really effectively when I stop listening to that little voice in my head that's telling me just how ridiculous I sound.  Gag that voice. It is not your friend.  You don't sound ridiculous to them, I'd bet money on it.  Speak from your heart.  Or, translated: stop thinking.

Caitlyn says: No censoring what you're saying, that means you're listening to that voice again. And remember, it is not your friend.  Mean what you say.

Caitlyn says: A few of you in here know that I have a less than fond affection for the violet wand.  In fact, I've told Domaris she'll never hear me ask for it.  I'll beg for it if she wants me to.  But I'll never say "Please Mistress, I want you to use the violet wand on me."  I may say "Please Mistress, I want you to use the violet wand on me until you're satisfied." or "I want to please you by feeling the violet wand against my skin."

Sabrina says: why not? 
Caitlyn says to Sabrina: because it would be a lie. I really don't.  But those other statements are both true.
Sabrina says: they are nice :)
Kerr nods... Accentuate pleasing the Dom/me through the request rather than your own personal interest?
Sabrina nods

Caitlyn says to Kerr: not a terrible idea <grins>  Especially if it's not something you really want in the first place.

Lucius says: Let Me see if I can articulate this...just a comment on what you already said....  You don't want to lie, because you want the Dominant to know the truth.

Caitlyn says to Lucius: that's the basis of it, yes.

Lucius says: In the example, Domaris knows She can and will use the violet wand on Caitlyn, if She so chooses....  but She wants to, needs to, know Caitlyn's actual feelings about it.

Domaris says: I think I might be able to comment on this one.  I would not consider begging (for me) to be a time to discover her real feelings. I already know she doesn't like the sensation of the violet wand.  Knowing this, it's for my pleasure that she will be told to beg for something she would rather not experience... not for hers.

Caitlyn smiles at Domaris.

Smokey asks: Caitlyn, is the wand a limit of yours?

Caitlyn says to Smokey: no, it's not.

Caitlyn says: One last thing I wanted to mention, know what sort of mental state you need to be in to beg.  You may not be able to do it in all frames of mind. Some mindsets may facilitate it others may hinder it. Those are all things your Dominant needs to know.

Caitlyn says: We have a few moments, and I did mention a demonstration, which I know more than a couple of you are here for. <grins  Caitlyn smiles. Since I've often been told to never ask of others what you won't do yourself, I pretty much volunteered myself for this one.  Caitlyn walks to the edge of the platform and offers her hand to Domaris.

Domaris stands up, fastening the end of Kerr's leash securely to her chair for safekeeping and walks up to the stage.

Caitlyn says: And, since I need assistance, Domaris has graciously offered to beg for... <checks her notes> oh, whoops, offered to assist me by providing me with someone to beg TO. Silly me.

Beethoven grins
Kerr giggles

Caitlyn assists Domaris up on the stage, kissing her hand as she does.

Domaris steps up on to the stage, releasing Caitlyn's hand and fastening her fingers tightly into the back of Caitlyn's hair.

Caitlyn whimpers softly and closes her eyes.

Domaris pushes Caitlyn's face down towards the stage and draws her closer to the front edge, in plain view of the audience.

Caitlyn drops heavily to her knees near the edge of the platform.

Domaris glances around to ensure that everyone will have a good view, then leans down, keeping Caitlyn's head pressed to the ground, and begins to speak in a low, carrying voice.

Caitlyn takes slow deep breaths and concentrates on Domaris' voice.

Domaris says to Caitlyn: When you were at my home this month, you asked me for something.

Caitlyn whimpers softly and nods.

Domaris says to Caitlyn: You asked if I would be willing to hurt you, beyond what I have before... beyond what you were sure you could manage.

Domaris looks down at Caitlyn, and pulls her face up roughly, fingers still clasped in Caitlyn's hair. Beg for it... and it will happen when you are at my home again next month.

Caitlyn opens her eyes and looks up at Domaris, drawing in a shuddering breath.  Caitlyn swallows audibly and nods, closing her eyes and breathing deeply as she prepares her thoughts.  Caitlyn opens her eyes and looks up at Domaris.  CMistress, please, I want you to hurt me, I need you to. I need to feel the sting of the lash and the bite of the cane and I need it to be from you.  I need for you to push me, beyond what I can take, beyond what I'm sure I can manage because you are the only person I trust enough to be able to allow myself to let go during it.  Caitlyn focuses on Domaris, watching her face. "I want us to do this together, to strengthen the connection between us that is so close to tangible, to pour energy and power into that connection to keep it strong."

Domaris keeps her eyes locked on Caitlyn's, listening intently to each word.

Caitlyn says: I want you to be able to touch me lightly and see me shiver and know that it's because of you. To see the pink then the red appear against my skin and hear my cries and my pleas and know that you decide when enough is enough.  Caitlyn looks up at Domaris and drops her voice to a whisper, "Please Mistress."

Domaris looks down at Caitlyn, silent for a long moment, watching.  Domaris leans down, her lips close to Caitlyn's ear. Yes.

Caitlyn whimpers softly as her eyes flutter shut. "Thank you Mistress."

Kerr smiles quietly at the two

Domaris keeps her fingers in Caitlyn's hair and turns to face the audience. Thank you, all, for coming tonight... if you have questions, please stay and ask... otherwise, that's all for tonight!

Lucius feels as if He's been put back in touch with why He's in this to begin with - and with what Domination and submission are all about...

Caitlyn leans into Domaris' touch and practices breathing.

Domaris slides her hand out of Caitlyn's hair and draws her off of the stage gently, back to the seating area, picking up Kerr's leash again and sitting down.

Caitlyn slides to her knees next to Domaris and smiles.

Domaris keeps her arm around Caitlyn closely.

Rebecca smiles at Cait and up at Domaris: She did a wonderful job.

Caitlyn smiles and speaks a bit quieter than normal, "Thank you. And thank you all for coming."  Caitlyn leans against Domaris and smiles at Rebecca.

Kristine says: just a few things that Cait did, that I was going to mention...  Kristine says: I think the first thing a lot of people overlook is to take a moment and figure out what the point they're making is... take a deep breath, don't just start speaking. Tthen concentrate on the first thing, not plotting out every single thing, let one thing flow to the next  And another area I think doesn't get talked about much is the trust area. Begging can be a very accurate gauge of a sub's feelings toward a dominant. If they have trouble or if there's a block there, sometimes it's in the trust relationship as much as in the sub's history

Kristine says: the other thing I had to say was that sometimes it helps people to see begging as like any other bdsm activity... receiving a caning, a flogging, etc... instead of focusing on "I want this, and I'm asking for it, so I feel stupid" or like the sub is directing the action. Instead focusing on the vulnerability of it, sharing in words what you would share physically in other ways

Domaris says: I think that trust is a very important issue, particularly with an intense topic like this one. I always carefully consider what I'm asking for, and whether it's something that they are -really- prepared to offer.

Kristine says: what a great way of saying it, Domaris.  Kristine thinks sometimes the dominants forget what their responsibility is when they ask a submissive to beg.  Or even don't know.  Do you have a way you determine what a sub is actually prepared to beg for, Domaris?

Domaris says: it's not a set in stone formula, exactly.  I know Caitlyn, and I know where her limits are... it's something we've developed over time.

Selaria asks: I wouldn't think that "begging" is so formally done at all times?

Domaris says: just like with any play element.

Domaris says: no, Sel... this was formal because of what I wanted.

Selaria says: ah, k

Caitlyn grins slightly. And because of how I beg.

Selaria asks: so (and this may sound silly)... but does Caitlyn beg only when you want her to? And for what you want?

Domaris says: I would not require such an intense and deeply trusting topic of begging in a situation where I was less familiar with the submissive.

Caitlyn says to Selaria: I have only begged at Domaris' behest, however I seriously doubt, and I'm sure Domaris will correct me if I'm wrong, that she'd object to me begging at other times.

Selaria nods

Domaris says: I would not. My only objection would be if I felt that the submissive was being pushy with it, which I know that Caitlyn would not be.

Caitlyn smiles at Domaris.

Kristine says: it's a philosophical thing though, too

Kristine says: some people believe that subs should ask for what they want, that it's part of the sub's "job" or responsibility... whatever.  Not all the time <g>  Others feel that any request made by a submissive to a dom/me without the dom's express permission is unreasonable.  Part of the relationship involves working that kind of stuff out, without different points of view... and begging seems to be right at the center of a lot of disagreeing viewpoints

Caitlyn says: I believe I'm of the camp that thinks a sub expressing their wants and needs is necessary, it's all in how a person goes about it however.

Domaris says: personally, although I enjoy begging, I don't want to be petitioned for every little thing. I want to be more pro-active than that. But that's me.

Kristine says: there's one more point too... in order to really beg effectively, it takes a more secure submissive.  If you don't know who you are and what you want, you have no idea if you're being honest and open at all when you're begging It's one of the things that was said earlier.. the difference in the phrasing - one being truthful, the other being a lie